I don't know if it has a specific sound but I do know that I compared streaming directly through my Bartok Apex and through the same with Roon. It sounded obviously better with Roon.
Is there a ROON sound?
I finally had to give in and open a ROON account. I bought the highly recommended 432 EVO Aeon server, but it only works with ROON (as an endpoint) or the Logitech Media Server. The latter seemed a bit awkward to get going, so I started a ROON account (so far for a year). The server offers a plethora of filter and up-sampling choices, let alone the unique ability to change the orchestral pitch to 432 Hz down from the now common 440Hz (the way Mozart or even Verdi heard their music before 440 became the common recording standard for sounding "crisper"). [I have tried this option several times but was underwhelmed. But that's just my personal first take on the subject]
Up to now, I listened to most of my music either through Apple Music as ALAC files or Quobuz as FLAC; I also have a Native DSD library and another with YouTube downloads (FLAC as well). The latter go directly from my MacBook Air (M1 chip) to my MSB Discrete DAC, or through an Audirvana rinse cycle.
My first impression listening to the 432EVO/ROON combination on "Brothers in Arms" was like listening with lightly compressed cotton plugs in my ears. That was with the manufacturer-recommended upsampling rate and filter-choice. I could hardly understand any of Mark Knopfler's (admittedly mumbling) musings! I immediately switched back to my Apple Music version and at least heard things like "through the fields of destruction - baptism of fire" and other text bites. The overall presentation was sharper and more acoustically demanding, but with admittedly less-wide soundstage. I then switched back to the server/ROON combo and disabled all filters and upsampling, going into bit-perfect mode. But even then, the overall presentation, while admittedly more bass heavy and spacious, the singer's words were still hardly intelligible. I actually think that "Brothers in Arms" is a really good example to test for a component ability to shine light on sung or spoken words; another favorite example is Boz Scaggs' "Thanks to You", where the clearest presentation in my system comes from the LP (which is called "Dig"), followed by Quobuz.
I went back to the 2022 review of the Aeon server in Absolute Sound by Andrew Quint, where he extolls the sonic virtues of the instrument (but, like myself, did not like the lower pitch option). I trust that he could not detect the same flaws as I did, albeit streaming from ROON as well.
I understand that ROON emerged from the previous SONOS company. A good friend of ours was one of the first SONOS adopters some 30 years ago, but I never liked it in a musicality sense, especially the gooey bass. To me it always sounded like Musak. So, I might be a bit prejudiced here, because what I am hearing now from ROON is as "pleasing" as the old SONOS; kinda lounge character, but not really stirring or attention-grabbing.
So, I would like to hear the unvarnished truth from this illustrious audience, what their experience with ROON is in terms of musicality and neutral/natural presentation, especially if they can offer some kind of A/B comparison from their own listening experience. As I said, I have zero previous experience with ROON, and might just be a bit biased here.
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@reimarc just compared the same Dire Straits track (one kf my favorite DS songs) using same Qobuz album played on my Aurender N200 streamer using it’s proprietary DSP controlled via Aurender Conductor app to using the N200 as a Roon end point. All else being equal. Both native and Roon sound excellent with Roon slightly rounder around the edges but without compromising the mids where vocals live. There’s no struggle to hear Mark’s lyrics despite his very soft singing on this track. Here’s my analysis of your problem based on reading your post… You are comparing two different sources - Evo and Mac. I don’t know how Evo is connected to your MSB DAC but I assume the Mac is connected using USB? And the Evo is connected via its coax/spdif? Can you clarify? MSB should not be fed upsampled/modified data stream. Rely on MSB to do its task properly and feed it original signal. You should also use the exact same type of connection. Use USB from Evo into MSB and allow the MSB clock to take control. Don’t compare 🍏 to 🍊. Switch completely to Evo using the usb cable you used with the Mac. Does your MSB Discrete have a network module to configure the DAC as a roon end point without using Evo? If so, try that as well. If your results are still consistent with smothered presentation lacking in clarity wheb you’re running Evo, I would suggest returning the Evo and using Roon core on Mac and stream directly to MSB using its network module. That’s my take on it. Good luck! |
audphile1 Thanks for your suggestions. I did exactly how you describe it (no apples vs. oranges): the USB signal either directly from my Mac or from the EVO goes into the MSB USB/Optical converter module, and the fiber optic cable runs into my DAC (at the opposite end of the room). And yes, I am not using any DSP/upsampling from either source, just as you said. The MSB Discrete is a fabulous DAC using the proprietary R2R technology that makes this brand so outstanding in terms of musicality and yet precision (I used their flagship Premier Platinum Signature for years, but it would not handle DSD).If you look at this thread, there are quite a few members who share my listening experience with ROON, albeit maybe not so pronouncedly. I am in communication with the gentleman in Belgium who gave us the EVO: he too feels that ROON might be not the last word in clarity; so he is writing new firmware for another very popular audiophile player as we speak. There might also be an EVO-specific sound at play: your Aurender server is well known for its clarity and transparency (the MSB brothers use it at their homes), while others call it too lean. The reviews of the EVO describe its sound as very "musical" and "comforting" (using the ROON player). There might be also a personal preference at play here. In any case, Frederic (the designer of the EVO) graciously agreed to have a look at my unit paying particular attention at the USB output patine, which might be faulty. We will see. As to my initial question: the members who say that there is no such thing as a ROON sound ("bits are bits") are on one side, while others say that the more CPU engagement a player program needs, the more the sound suffers. I am a novice when it comes to computer audio, and hence cannot say who is right or wrong. Moreover, I might indeed not have completely optimized my signal path yet. As for now: vinyl still rules IMHO. [MacBook Air with M1 chip; 432EVO Aeon server with shielded Ethernet connection directly to a Comcast router; ROON via ApplePlay (FLAC), or Apple Music (ALAC), or Audirvana, or HQPlayer (for DSD as DoP); MSB USB/fiber-optic connection; MSB Discrete DAC; Supratek Grange preamp; Linkwitz Labs Powerbox (x2) active crossover and N2Core amplification (x 10 total); Linkwitz LX521 active channel (5x2) open baffle speakers; all non-digital cables and connectors home-made 9N silver solid core]. |
There should not be a degree of difference you described. I’ve used roon and native streaming with few streamers and your observations indicate there is definitely a problem somewhere. Most likely with Evo. |
@reimarc You have it confused, bits are bits and the need for greater CPU resources are not opposite sides of the argument, rather they go hand in hand. We receive bit perfect data at our modems, it is OUR entire streaming chains that provide the variable sound quality, the streamer likely having the greatest influence.
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