Is the Manley Steelhead still relevant?

@drbond
Nobody has asked you the key questions -
What power amp are you using ?
For your current listening how high do you have to go on the Manley volume pot ?

From your other posts - you appear to have Atmasphere MA1 amplifiers.
These are an easy load to drive ( 100k ) but I note that they are less sensitive than many amplifiers ( 2.8V to full power ).

Your Manley linestage is just a buffer - no real gain.

So to answer your question on what a preamp would do, -
If you find that you have to turn the Manley volume pot past halfway for normal listening then adding a linestage with gain means that the device driving the power amps will be working less hard - this may result in more headroom, and a more relaxed sound overall.

I have found that despite DAC’s/CD Players usually having enough output to drive power amps direct, the insertion of a high qusality lineage often brings about a more natural, unforced presentation - even more transparent in some cases, despite the additional preamp and cable.

For example I regularly listen to an Air Tight system with Tannoy Autographs. Even though the power amps are very sensiitive and the DAC a stereophile class A product, we still prefer inserting the matching Air Tight preamp between the DAC and power amps, even though the additional gain is not needed.

If I were in your position and you find you are running the Manley at high volume for normal listening, then rather than add a line stage, why not investigate an Atmosphere preamp that includes a phono stage. Less boxes and less cabling.  The full function Atmosphere preamps are well regarded with excellent phono stages.

I would not be surprised to find that you find some significant improvements by having more drive to the inut of the MA1 power amps. Perhaps see if you can trial an Atmasphere MP3 or MP1 full function preamp ( with phono ) you will quickly get the answer you are looking for.

@lewm

What fsonic and maybe Dover mentioned is another class of "linestage" that is completely passive

I did NOT discuss passaive linestages in my post, and do not like them, and they would be a waste of time in drbond's system.
How many times have I told you to read my posts more carefully.
I get sick and tired of you misinterprretting my posts. You are supposed to be a doctor - would you like me to post in Latin ??

My recommendation for drbond is clearly to add an ACTIVE line stage between the Manley and his power amps.

@drbond 

So, when you say the Manley linestage is just a "buffer", you mean that it's not amplifying the signal by adding gain, but just transmitting the signal unadulterated?

Yes.
The washed out sound at higher volume settings suggest the Manley is either unable to drive the Atmasphere power amp adequately, or the quality of the sound is deteriorating at higher volume settings due to the circuit topology in the Manley.

Adding an active line stage will fix that issue and may even benefit your other power amplifiers as well. I would encourage you to try some out if you can.

In terms of options Atmasphere preamps should work well and have balanced outputs as well as single ended to suit their amps.
Conrad Johnson linestages at the upper levels are excellent but only have single ended outputs available.
I would be wary of the Lamm preamps without trialling them becuase they tend to work best with their own gear - the LAMM phono/preamps have unusual gain structures and in real use tend to work best together.

@drbond 
Depends on your budget.
The reason I suggested the Atmasphere MP1 or MP3 is they are certain to have enough drive to match the the MA1's. I think you can get these with or without a phono included in the preamp.
The Conrad Johnson ET7 up to the Gatt have very good drive for insensitive amplifiers. A friend of mine has recently purchased the Conrad Johnson Gatt2 - it is stunning but of course it has a big price tag. It's a forever purchase.
Air Tight are also very good - the ATC2 has great drive and can be obtained at reasonable prices second hand due to being less well known.
Audio Research in general I find a little brash for my taste and I think the others offer better value.

How much do you want to spend ?

@drbond
Thats great.
I have a feeling all three power amps will benefit from the inclusion of a high quality line stage. Dont forget to use the Manley fixed ouputs when using a linestage.

Have fun and good luck. Let us know how you go.

Cheers.

@drbond
You should be able to get a great preamp for $30k.
In my view I am sceptical of the real performance of many of the 50-100k offerings. Personally I have heard the Solution 7 series at length and quite frankly it was no more resolving than my vintage tube gear ( modified ). Furthermore harmonic structures were missing. The VITUS doesn’t sound anything special ( a friend owns the full set ). The CH Precision stuff to me is like Naim of old - there are about 20 upgrades you have to have so your 60k becomes 200k per component. Crazy stuff.

I personally like the combo of tube preamp with solid state power amp.
The only solid state preamps that woould interest me would be Constellation ( John Curl ), Robert Koda K15EX, ( I know 2 people who have gone from Thrax/CJ to Robert Koda K15EX ) or Technical Brain. The latter 2 are well over budget. The Constellation Virgo is in your price range, and would be an excellent option.

I would be interested to know which is your favourite amplifier driving the Sound Labs. A friend of mine had the A1’s with a full Jadis amplification system some years ago. I noted that many solid state amps when pushed sounded quite strident driving them.

As far as your options go here are my thoughts -

The VAC appears to be not a fully balanced design. It is single ended and uses output transformers to create a balanced output My concern with the VAC would be the output drive -

AS gain 12db - output voltage 32V (peak I would assume )
VAC gain 12db - output volage is quoted as >8V ( not a lot )
CJ Gat2 gain 25db - output voltage 20V.

So you would need to check the VAC in your system before buying to assess its matching.

In terms of sonic signature even though the CJ Gat2 is single ended, its the best linestage I have heard by some margin - that includes Soulution, Jadis, Vitus, Gryphon. It is an extremely organic sound, superb resolution, there is a sense of weight, power, everything cut from one cloth. It is the only preamp I that I’ve heard that I would purchase to replace my own much modified Marantz 7. Its noise floor is phenomenally low. It blows the older Gat and ACT2 preamps away considerably. I would not dismiss this option, because I think its that good and would suit your Soundlabs.

For the others my gut feel is the AS MP1 would be a better choice over the VAC due to its output voltage matching the inefficient gain of the MA1 monos better. The AS is a DC coupled design, no caps in the signal path, and therefore can have a little DC on the output, and may be more sensitive to tube choice etc. This can lead to a little noise. I would expect the CJ GAT2 to be the quietest of the 3 options.

From the forum I did see someone suggest that Atmasphere sometimes has units available for demo directly.

It would be ideal if you could hear before you buy.

Cheers,

Dover