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Is Sub Gain Set&Forget Across Music Genres a Fallacy?

I have a single subwoofer in each of my 3 installations.  Two Rels (S/5 and R-328), and a Sunfire (SDS8).  L/R's are Spendor D7, D1, and SA1, respectively.

Try as I might, I cannot ever seem to arrive at one sub gain setting (to say nothing of crossover setting, but let's leave that alone for now) that works ideally or even sufficiently for all of the music that I listen to (blues, jazz, rock, classic rock, southern rock, country, some pop).

Maybe I'm naive and the answer is simple - of course dummy, why would you think there'd be a single setting that would work for everything?  

It'll sound perfect for certain songs/genres (majority), but then I today listen to Jimmy "Duck" Holmes new blues album "Cypress Grove" (really good), which has a TON of bass (and really good recurring bass on certain tracks - probably a pretty good album for sub setup) and I find I need to dial everything way back.

So if I say, okay, this Cypress Grove album is my baseline for setting up my sub, then it'll probably come up wanting on other stuff, ugh.  I am going to get some GIK room treatment monster bass traps to go on the front wall, so I know that will help.

As I said, maybe the simple answer is, YES, there is no such thing as set and forget for subwoofers across music genres.

PIA to keep changing the gain during a listening session but appears that is way it has to be if I don't want to just ignore the non-ideal-ness of the bass with single setting (not my style).....    If that's wrong, LMK what the magic secret is!  

I anticipate some will say multiple subs is the only way to cure this.  Perhaps, but not an option at present time for me.  Looking to keep this discussion to single sub if possible, as I know it could easily morph to a swarm discussion quickly. 

If sub swarm is the only answer, however, I suppose I could accept that.  But if room treatment and careful setup can get there, that's preferable.  Maybe set/forget not even possible with swarm - kinda seems like this could be an issue that more subs don't necessarily fix? 
kren0006
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
You already have the answer. Take any two subs and move them to the third system creating a three sub system. When you see how much better that works and want to try and blame it on the room, or the system, or anything other than the fact its the multiple subs, move them all to the next system. And the next. However many moves it takes to finally sink in that yes indeed DBA is the way.

Then once you figure this out realize there's a reason for the old Loudness switch. Volume affects subjective bass perception, big time. Because of this there is no one magic level that will ever be perfect for all volume levels. So make your sub level adjustments very slight, very carefully, and very gradually. 

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367

Go and listen. You will see.
kren0006 OP
1,859 posts
 
Thanks m-db and millercarbon for the suggestions, and to those who have messaged me.  Wasn’t aware of sub presets like that. 

“You already know the answer” — that’s what I was afraid of. The thought of lugging heavy subs up/down stairs and hookup and dialing in is gonna take some time to build up to but agree probably necessary if I’m serious about making this better.
drumnman2
18 posts
 
I use 2 Rythmik subs with a DSpeaker S2 for room correction on the subs and run my speakers full range. I have gotten the response to within 2 db’s from 20-200hz. Was up to -13 when I started. Still different recordings have different amounts of bass. My solution was to run the RCA signal thru an old Adcom preamp I had around, inserted before the DSpeaker, as recommended by them. Now with the remote on the Adcom I can easily adjust the sub level from my seat. Usually only takes one push on the remote to lower volume on some albums. Never have had to raise it. I doubt I am degrading the signal much if at all by doing this. Of course you would have to use the RCA inputs on your Rel’s instead of high level ones or I believe there is an RCA to high level adapter available. The DSpeaker was huge tho in improving the sound in my rather small room. A cheap Schiit pre would work.
big_greg
6,623 posts
 
Is it "wrong" when one recording has a lot of bass content and another has very little?  If your subs are working correctly, they are just letting you know what's there in the music.  If it seems like too much bass because the last recording you listened to was "just right", it's not the subwoofer that's the issue. 

I have 4 subs in my system.  While I tinker with them a little from time to time, yes, they are for the most part "set it and forget it". 

Sometimes the bass is startling.  Sometimes I wonder where it went.  It's not because the subwoofers aren't dialed in.
kren0006 OP
1,859 posts
 
bg: fair point. 

I didn’t say anything was wrong with the recordings. Maybe I didn’t explain the situation well enough. The most annoying situation for me is I think I have it all dialed in, sounds great on everything I listen to, and then a guest comes and requests something where the bass is so overwhelming it needs to be dialed back - kinda embarrassing. 

But I guess the comparable is a system with full range speakers and no subwoofers. Assuming no tone controls on the preamp or integrated, this is a no adjustment setup across music genres or songs. Simple, easy. The owner never has to worry whether the settings are optimal.


I was just wondering if it is even possible to reach that level of simplicity and ease with one (ideally for me) or more subs after the initial calibration (Set and forget and still optimal). Or whether there will always be some tweaking needed. 

Sounds like you are very close to the set and forget. 

Maybe subwoofers are so specialized compared to full range speakers and the sound improvements subs offer are so notable that any inconvenience involved in slight adjustments are well worth it if sound quality is more impressive than simplicity?


Maybe I really do just need a second one; dang I didn’t want to go there and not sure how I’ll make that fly when better half already frustrated with how much (junk - her words) is cluttering the living room.
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