Is preamp remote volume a deal breaker for you?


I've been looking for a quality active tube preamp with remote volume control. Most high quality tube preamps that are reasonably priced (ie, under $4000) do not come with remote volume. Those that do use the cheap motorized Alps pot (I've had bad experience with Alps), probably because it's cheap and widely available. I've seen some very expensive preamps us this pot, unfortunately. The two very high quality preamps I've read about are the SAS Labs 11A, Don Allens preamp, and Atma-sphere M3, but the designers refuses to implement remote because they believe the sound will suffer. Atma-sphere uses a huge hand assembled remote volume only for there expensive MP1. A preamp without remote is a deal breaker for me. How about you?
dracule1

Showing 4 responses by atmasphere

My preamp is 3 feet from my listening chair. It can run really long cables (I have 30 feet) without any problem so even though I have a remote in the preamp (it uses a custom built switch for the volume control, which is driven by a motor) I never use it. Compromising the sound on account of a remote feature has never struck me as a good idea- the function of the stereo, IMO, is to sound as close to real music as possible and promote the enjoyment of music on that account.

Its my opinion that the ability to drive long cables is far more convenient than a remote- the entire front end of the system- turntable, CDP and tuner is 3 feet from my chair. I can see if it was all set up between the speakers it would be a pain in the rear. But with the ability to drive long cables also came the ability to obviate the artifact of the cable itself- so the length and cost of the cable has no bearing on the sound of the system. That's a pretty big plus!
The standard for balanced line is the output of the device driving the cable should be able to drive 600 ohms or less (in the case of microphones) without degradation (this calls for a fairly low output impedance BTW). If the cable is terminated at the input of the amp with a 600 ohm load, then you will hear no difference between a high end cable and a cheap one, ours, or one from Radio Shack. I saw this demonstrated in spades between our cable (which is Mogami) and a cable that retails for $1000/foot. The customer went back and forth between the cable over a period of 2 weeks until he realized that not only could he not hear any difference, but that the sale of the high end cables got him back most of the cost of his preamp (the cables were 24 feet long). He was ecstatic.

If the termination is not installed, then cable differences appear. Its a simple fact that most high end preamps have a problem driving 600 ohms and so the thought of such a termination 99 44/100% of the time is out of the question. But if it can be done, there will be no artifact of any cable. Now when we introduced the MP-1 back in 1989, it was the first balanced line preamp made. We figured everyone else would support the 600 ohm standard; boy were we wrong!

We installed the remote because people ask for it. Engineering one that does not affect the sound (and also fits in the unit so older preamps can be also updated) was/is the yardstick. Most of the remotes we saw at the time did cause some sort of artifact; I remember one very well-known tube preamp manufacturer that offered their first remote where the degradation was enough that dealers stocked up on the previous model to get away from the remote.

As an audiophile I am one of those that will not sacrifice the sound due to a remote. It does seem like I am the minority these days...
Hi Al, If you put a 600 ohm resistance across a cable, which has capacitive, inductive and resistive aspects, the outcome is that the 600 ohm resistance becomes the primary aspect of what you are driving. The other things (which normally affect a cable when the amp input impedance is 100K or higher) get 'swamped out'.

This is how all high fidelity recordings are possible, BTW. If you have any recordings from the 1950s, what we have is a recording that sounds better the better you make your system. (Some people think that the best recordings were made in the 1950s). How did they do this without high-end cables? How could they run microphone signals over 200 feet and have them sound anything like HiFi over such a distance? The answer is that they used a low impedance termination on the line.

For example, I have a set of Neumann U-67 microphones. They use a small tube preamp to take the signal from the condenser element. This preamp is only a single triode gain stage- so its output impedance is high. But it drives an output transformer that is set to 150 ohms at its output. So many mic inputs on mixers and tape machines have a low input impedance like this. It allows the mic to drive *stupidly long* cables without any degradation at all, and the cost of the cable is kept to a minimum.

Now maybe I'm a little odd this way, but it seems to me that a system that would allow one to ditch expensive cables in favor of even better sound would be a good thing.

Mind you- if the terminations are not there, the 'better sound' I mentioned could well be lost to cable interaction.
Dracule1, we investigated relay-operated volume controls and spent a lot of money in the process. They are quite good but a good quality rotary switch sounds better...

Al, one *would* think that the shorter the cable the better, but even in the case of 1 meter, I have seen similar benefits. The example I am thinking of is the tone arm cable, which is often only 1 meter (many audiophiles will go through quite a bit of effort and money finding the 'right' phono cable...). Since all cartridges are balanced sources, its possible to run the phono balanced to the preamp. If you are using a LOMC and have some sort of loading for it at the input of the preamp, the result is that you have a low-impedance balanced line and the cable will have no artifact. So an inexpensive cable in this situation will keep up with the most expensive with ease, as long as the cable is built right, which really has little to do with the cost.

Many people don't realize that LOMC cartridges, while having low voltage output, can have rather high current outputs, thus their ability to drive a 100 ohm resistor and the like.