Is optical mostly a waste of time versus Ethernet?

In process of more networking experiments, better modem with Broadcom vs Intel chip in old,  outboard power supply, Mikrotic  CCR1036 enterprise grade router.

Well, certainly there is bidirectionality on ethernet between router and server, router needs to know server there. The difference is information from music player (Roon in my case) doesn't follow that path, it goes out second ethernet port directly to FMC (in my case) could be streamer or renderer for someone else. Without the second ethernet port information from music player has to go back through the ethernet cable connecting to router or switch.

Isn't a router without wifi a switch, never heard of a router without wifi.

Router and/or switch with optical out could be contender, one issue could be lack of choices with optical. Some claim audiophile switches superior to generic, don't know of one with optical.

Don't know if I already mentioned in this thread, but thus far I prefer ethernet vs generic FMC going to server, optical post server best for me.

Based on my experience, optimal implementation of these units is to use lps, best power cords, all plugged into power conditioner, this on both FMC. I've also used portable lithium ion battery pack to power FMC, so that would be option if no power conditioner or power conditioner not reachable. The one thing you don't want to do is plug the switching power supply (wall wart) into same ac line rest of audio system on. All switching power supplies back feed noise into ac lines, no no for audio.

Maximum optimization not needed initially to hear lower noise floor, at least in some cases. One could use FMC with wall warts straight into wall, still hear improvements. Nice middle ground optimization would be lps only on second in line FMC, wall wart on first in line. High end power cable on lps also not necessary. Just want to remind people this may be nice improvement, even at perhaps $100 total expenditure. I'm just taking things to extreme with the optimization thing.

One thing that's a freebie, always keep switching power supplies off ac line serving rest of system. Switching power supplies inject noise into ac line.

One should also think in terms of PRE server and POST server In order to optimize entire chain. One may in fact benefit from FMC or ethernet filters on both sides of server. At one point I had FMC on both sides, this entailed 4 FMC, all with lps and pretty high end power cables, all connected to AC power conditioner.

The above extreme cleansing experiment, along with prior one with audiophile switch were not successful. My experience illustrates there may be fine line between sufficient and excessive cleansing.

Still much experimenting down road for optical vs ethernet.

In any case, add these devices one at a time, then over time optimize for that device. And do A>B>A comparisons to determine if device is really an improvement. I've been fooled by some devices in short term pre comparison phase.

@mitch2 I'm waiting on completion of Taiko Extreme diy clone to experiment with. Initially, build will only have Jcat ethernet card, so used with streamer. Eventually, Pink Faun or Jcat usb card for rendering within server. Should be interesting.

Eno between server and renderer would be interesting vs. prior, at this point my experience is post server more important than pre. Upcoming Muon trial in pre server position will be my last attempt at pre server upgrades for time being.

The OpticalRendu is streamer for optical. It takes place of second in line FMC with streamer and usb output to dac. Advantages include one less conversion to ethernet (FMC only have ethernet outputs), better clock, less noise than generic FMC, very nice streamer with nice clock less noise on usb out, no usb cleansing devices needed. Love my OpticalRendu, one of the largest if not largest streaming upgrade I've experienced.

@sbank Good post, one little nit, OpticalRendu requires optical cable input, thus, requires FMC, unless one's router, switch, server has optical output.

And yes, I believe highest quality lps a must to extract max potential from OR. Sonicorbiter OS very easy to navigate, easy to implement OR into streaming system.

@emergingsoul You have that correct, one ethernet in, one out. Most servers have one ethernet port in which case you bidirectional flow back and forth to router or switch. Doing this I've avoided an extra piece of equipment, in my case server>FMC>OpticalRendu(convert to usb)>dac. Also made sense to me that one would want to avoid the bidirectional flow,

I did try adding an audiophile switch, lesser sound quality than above setup, only makes for an unneeded detour.

@mitch2 Seems logical to me minimizing noise earlier in chain would be more effective than later, in this case optical router would seem preferable. Ethernet  vs optical router, any single ethernet router could create less noise than a certain optical router,  implementation key. If ethernet router superior to optical the isolator may be way to go.

Assuming you're using wifi with all other equipment connected to router, only audio system using ethernet. Router is likely noisiest component in streaming chain, switch is there to minimize noise from router. Now if that router isn't supplying wifi, replacing router with the quieter switch would be way to go, superior clocking and better power supply in audiophile switch a further step up. ;Problem for vast majority of us is we need wifi, have to put up with noisy routers. Nice way to go, have two ethernet services coming into home, one for audio system, other for rest of home (wifi). Audio branch feeds audiophile switch, just got rid of one very noisy component (router). My proposed optimized/simplified streaming chain would be, modem>switch>server ethernet port in>server ethernet port out>streamer>dac. One could substitute all optical for the ethernet, could also take server ethernet/optical out to streamer/dac, could also substitute integrated server/streamer for the separate server and streamer.

Router connects to server via AQ Vodka ethernet cable, server out connects to first in line FMC via AQ Vodka ethernet cable.

@fredrik222 Obvious listening not your cup of tea, how you getting along over at audiophilestyle forum?

So, with all these streaming devices, designers with white papers, a multitude of individuals hearing the benefits of these devices. I guess we're all deluded dupes of snake oil salesmen trying to drain us of our hard earned money.

Afraid that ain't going nowhere at this site, ASR is the place for absolutes. In the meantime, we're all having fun experimenting with streaming topologies, experiential learning is our bag, pronouncements from high above not!

For us generalists and/or audiophiles not expert in all the technicalities of streaming we have to rely on the designers of streaming equipment. @fredrik222  proposes himself as the expert above all experts, simply ignores designers of the steaming audio equipment audiophiles use to good effect. Many of us have used general service or streaming equipment not designed with audiophile in mind, we've heard improvements in sound quality with specialty equipment, he dismisses our perceptions as faulty. 

For the novice, you can go with ones and zeros or you can go with trust in your senses. The one thing the objectivist can never answer is why we hear things they can't measure,

There are networking 'experts', and those who've integrated that knowledge with an understanding of how it relates to and affects audio streaming sound quality. People like John Swenson of Uptone Audio, and some others who can be found at audiophilestyle forum, these are the 'experts' I rely on for guidance in streaming.

Add to this expertise, a knowledge base formed from those with practical experience, those with open minds who've tried a variety of audiophile focused streaming products.

Between these two cohorts of expertise, one finds guidance on how various products work and their efficacy. And then we have the final 'expert', if one trusts their sensory perceptions, they become the final arbiter of what is effective and not in their unique streaming setup.

I've experienced enough streaming components, and observed so many variations in streaming solutions others report having good experiences with to write off any particular component or collection of components. I do believe we'll get to a point where simpler is better becomes a de facto standard, optimizing components by utilizing best technology available within each is key to getting there. Streaming still relatively immature technology, expect great number of innovations in coming years.

@fredrik222 You certainly make many assumptions about me! I mention audiophile streaming being an immature technology and you go off on tangent about me being close minded, ignorant.

You seem to be one contentious person, you've ridiculed a number of people in this thread, this  not constructive in a forum where members are endeavoring to learn from others and listen to their experiences.

Constructive posts are those with positive bent, educating without belittling. You sir, cannot be a valued resource until you learn reasonable etiquette in dealing with others. Learn to strain out the narcissistic bit, gets old extremely fast.

@fredrik222 Okay, audiophile streaming is mature technology, don't expect further innovations. Is that an accurate statement?

Quite obvious you don't have patience for 'ignorant' people, in fact your additional comment as to the stupidity of people in regard to things political exposes level of malice also exposed in this thread.

As for expertise, a lot of us don't have expertise in many fields, not enough hours in the day.

Issue here is the usual overgeneralization and categorization of entire cohorts of people. Plenty on this forum ignorant about many facets of this hobby, but most are trying to educate themselves both through other's expertise and experience. You assume I'm not willing to educate myself, I suspect your emotions coloring your reading comprehension skills when you completely missed my post as to the purchase of Mikrotik enterprise grade router. In fact I'm at this very moment in steep learning curve getting this thing configured. I may never totally understand all the technicalities of networking, but at least I'm wiling to experience a wide variety of equipment and protocols involved with audiophile streaming.

Isn't low line Mikrotik, this ccr1036, designed for business environment  has much capability IMO. Not saying top of line, but what more does one need in home environment. This is all in service to audio and my curiosity, not to providing network to some large enterprise.

We shall see. Already tried audiophile switch, sound quality diminished from my netgear wif/router powered by lps.

In any case, having fun learning about myriad configuration options with the Mikrotic.