Is my preamp useless?


I enjoy my current system, which is built around a BAT VK-52SE preamp. I listen mostly to digital, via a Bryston BDP-2 player into a PS Audio DSD. I also enjoy vinyl on my VPI Classic/Dynavector/Sutherland 20-20 combo. Like most of us, I’m usually on the upgrade path. For me, the next component to upgrade would be the BAT preamp from a 52SE to a 53SE. But something occurred to me. I don’t listen loud. The gain on my PSA DSD is set to less than 100 and the BAT preamp is usually set between -20 and -10. So if my volume control is never set in the + range, is my preamp doing ANYTHING other than attenuating the volume and serving as a multi-input switch? Is all that Super Tube, single gain stage, zero feedback, high energy storage circuitry a waste of money?

Don’t get me wrong. I am very pleased with the sounds I hear. But if my pre isn’t doing anything, then I’d be better off to sell it and get a very simple passive attenuator, wouldn’t I? If that’s the case, what brands and models should I listen to?
Thanks for any advice.
slanski62

Showing 7 responses by milpai

Charles1dad,
That "specific" situation that you mention is correct, at least in my experience. Below are the situations when I feel that a passive will not work:

1. The source signal is very low
2. The amplifier sensitivity is more than 1V for full output
3. The speakers are less sensitive (less than 87 db and 4 ohms). Generally the BIG monsters with 10-15" woofers and 4+ drivers will most likely not work with passives.
4. You need more than 2 meters of ICs between source and amp
5. You need more than 15 feet speaker cables

I am sure that speaker wires also will make a huge difference. But I have not looked into that measurements.

On the other hand, if you carefully assemble a system around a passive - it is all bliss!
Atmasphere,
With all due respect - have you heard all possible permutations/combinations of amp+preamps that exist in the world? If not, then it is simply YOUR view that actives are always better than passives. Folks have been very happy about TVC preamps, which are considered to be passives. I love my TVC. Does it mean, it will work in all systems? Heck no! Try my preamp with a power amp that has a sensitivity of > 1.5V and it will sound pathetic at best. If you have heard a passive that was introduced in a system that needed the gain, I am sure it would sound bad. At the same time, in my system I cannot introduce any source that gives out less than 2V.
So, it is all system dependent. A properly put together system can shine as much or better than an active line stage, if it used a passive preamp. It has been asked before - why would Nelson Pass make active line stage, if he likes passives? The simple reason could be - because people have behemoth loudspeakers, whose sensitivity is so low that they need tons of GAIN in their system. The amps that drive these loudspeakers are low sensitive amps, mostly >1.5V for full power.
Grannyring,
Thank You for the offer. But I am a bit away from you - near Cleveland. I would be eager to know your system, in the first place. At least that will tell me why you felt your active would sound better in my system.

The next paragraph is for EVERYONE in general and not just you Grannyring.

I feel folks who come here for sincere audio discussions should post their system so that the other party can understand why the poster is so exited about his/her system. I think we all have gone through a certain phase of changes/upgrades, to arrive at what we like. So why not post your equipment here for others to see and then decide why the poster is exited about what he/she is recommending.
Atmasphere,
I think you were generalizing that Actives were better than passives. I do not think I attacked your statement in any way. I was suggesting that we cannot make generalized statements. Isn't TVC a passive component?

Grannyring,
It is not worthwhile to eat even a small coating. We are not trying to win anything here. I want to stress the importance of system matching. You may try LSA for the 4th time in your system. But if that did not work for the previous 3 times, what makes you think it will work the 4th time? Also, I suggest you try a very high quality TVC like Music First or Bespoke. You seem to have some expensive gear, so I am suggesting you these expensive TVCs. I would have suggested Promitheus Signature TVC - but I have my reservations against delivery times and customer service. The TVC I have is excellent component. I have compared it with a Line stage that costs $4500 and had to return that $4.5K component back.
Hope you have a great shootout and an enjoyable one at that!
I agree that I have not auditioned all the cables that are available. Will the manufacturer make a better cable next year - chances are most likely yes. Isn't advancement in technology supposed to do that? Nordost, Siltech, Shunyata, etc, all come up with new improved cables over a period of some years. Folks have done A-B comparison with the new-old and preferred one of the other. Does it mean that these cables are wrong?
There are tons of users on this forum who use very highly regarded active preamps (probably 3X-10X the cost of my entire system), and have experienced a better sound when their cables were upgraded. Does it mean that all these highly regarded active preamps also have not been designed properly? So which one would you say is wrong: cables or active preamp?
Atmasphere,
I did look up that your firm manufacture tube preamps that do not require expensive cables or do not react to cable changes. Unfortunately I am not a tube guy. But lets not go there.
So let us assume that I purchase this preamplifier. What happens to the power amplifier, sources and speaker cables? What about power cords? They also seem to have some degree of effect due to cable changes. At least in my system, the speaker cables made a huge positive difference. Or is my system completely wrong in revealing changes because of cable switching?
Zd542, don't feel offended just because you have not listed your system here.

But I found this statement funny :-)

Most of the stuff I recommend, I don't even own.

Are you telling me that you are recommending stuff on a whim? We were not talking of putting together a system for the OP. It is the OP's responsibility. We can only recommend or only advise based on our listening or personal experiences. Like you said, it is only up to the person to validate and then make a purchase - especially when it is recommended by folks who don't even own the components :-))
But listing your components at least gives the recommend-ee an idea of what the recommend-er really likes and then think if his/her own listening habits match with the recommend-er. I would never recommend a component which I do not have experience with. And things that I have auditioned, I would "only suggest" and mention that I have just auditioned.