Is it possible for a high end manufacturer to overprice their goods?

@carlsbad2

In business they have a similar set of equations that we used to calculate the price point that maximized revenues. Of course we had to have a demand vs price curve.

 

There’s not a single major company on earth that doesn’t understand the demand and price relationship.

I think it’s fair to say that some of them will go to extraordinary lengths to ramp up demand. It is said that Big Pharma was making $1000 every second during the most recent p(l)andemic.

With that kind of money they could afford the greatest PR campaign in history, and they did.

 

Luckily we audiophiles are still seem as relatively small fish compared to what happens in the art world. The fairly recent sale price of Cy Twombly’s Untitled fetched $46, 437, 500 USD back in 2017.

Most of us would be reluctant to pay $50 for what appears to be slapdash broad red paint stripes on a canvas if we saw it in a thrift store.

Encouraging a few well placed friendly ’journalists’ to whip up demand for high priced audio is kids stuff in comparison.

 

Here are some more surprising examples of what demand can do to price.

 

https://www.artnews.com/list/art-news/artists/most-expensive-works-sold-at-auction-1234579250/cy-twombly-untitled-bolsena-1969/

 

 

@thyname

I enjoyed reading your latest post.

You clearly outlined the way things things are for the prospective customer and I can find nothing to disagree with there.

I think we all would agree that, as you said in your first point:

1) The audio manufacturers are for-profit organizations. Not charities. They will enter a business relationship according to their perception / strategy on how to make a profit, and how to maximize their profit. Basic business decision & marketing strategy.

 

Fair enough.

 

However as @mitch2 points out, there’s more to it than that.

A lot more.

Specifically, as he says "but also create such a buzz that the audiophile community carries the torch to the point where promotion of the product in audio forums and by word-of-mouth seems to take on a life of its own."

It’s this "flavour of the month" / constant overhyping of 'certain products' that tends to cause a real stink and even occasionally bring the entire industry into disrepute.

Magazines, YouTube channels and forums apparently exist in order for reviewers and enthusiasts to share experiences and knowledge with each other.

This is important, particularly in those cases where we can’t easily get to hear potentially interesting products. Therefore we are forced to rely upon the opinions of others.

However, as we see all too often, these channels of communication can all too easily end up being blatantly misused as vehicles for promotion and advertising hype.

Pushing product.

 

What we really need is more honesty and this sometimes comes in short supply, at least it has done in my fairly long experience.

Let’s say for example, if the Revel Salon 2s really are the world’s best loudspeakers, then wouldn’t it be better if all other contenders for the throne be directly compared to them?

[Ditto Harbeth M40s, Wilson Alexandria’s, KEF Blades, Martin Logan’s Magico’s etc]

Direct comparisons, I believe, can tell you an awful lot more than any purely isolated review. You could read /watch 1000s of isolated reviews and learn nothing.

However if a reviewer is telling you why they think that a KEF LS50 is better than a Harbeth P3ESR, you’ll have more to go on.

You might also find it easier to sniff out what might be little more than marketing/ PR hype.

@thyname 

1) Lot of noise in the internet. You are right. Coming from "innocent" people with a secret agenda, whether from the manufacturers' side, or themselves profit motif. The key is to get to know the people online or personally that you learn to trust, both integrity wise, and from the perspective of matching their taste with your own. This takes years (if not decades) and constant exposure to what goes on in the hobby, user forums and publications / reviewers.

 

You're right, when it comes to opinions in audio, it can take years to find people who you can trust.

The same thing applies to cars, electrics, plumbing, health etc.

I still have fond memories of Derek Whittington who ran Sound Advice from Loughborough. I bought my first system from him and I'll always be grateful for his honesty and patience.

He was big on Linn and Naim, like so many were back then, but neither Derek nor anyone in his shop ever pushed anything on me.

I remember one difficult listening session where I couldn't find a single well reviewed loudspeaker I liked more than what I had already until someone there suggested listening to the Rega Kytes.

That was a classic case of using your own ears to make a purchasing decision. 

As you say, trying a product at home would be best but listening at a dealers is still far better than taking a gamble on what you've read or heard.

Howard Popeck is another name that comes to mind. Years ago my sister fancied some new speakers and auditioned some Harbeths at home.  She was unimpressed until Howard suggested listening to some vintage JBL L100s which she still loves to this day.

@daveyf

@cd318 Quite a difference between Harbeth’s and JBL L100’s!! Presumably your sister was primarily into rock, which might explain the preference for JBL’s.

 

Your presumption is correct.

If I remember correctly from what she told me, Howard demonstrated both the SLH5s and the C7ES3s which she thought were better but neither were to her taste.

Apparently Howard had been into rock himself and was familiar with what the JBLs could do.

It sometimes pays to have a dealer that has a wide range of tastes and experience in music.

Perhaps every good dealer or reviewer should have that?

@asvjerry 

Anyone who could remember the 'sound, the qualities' of even most of the various speakers and/or the equipment would be considered to be a savant of sorts....

 

I guess not, but at the least you should be aware of the strengths of various loudspeakers etc.

In that particular example Howard Popeck was familiar with both the Harbeths and the JBLs. I probably wouldn't pick the JBL L100 if I listened to mainly classical, they're good but there's probably better out there.

However for rock they're amongst the best speakers I've ever heard. It's hard to describe just why but they do have amazing transients and dynamics plus clean mids. They also have good bass but it's not the kind that's artificially boosted and then suddenly falls off a cliff.

Every dealer and reviewer should be familiar with a speaker like that just in case a listener strongly favours one particular genre over others.

As for modern equivalents, I've never heard any of the Zu speakers but I'd expect them to be also extremely good with rock. Maybe PMC too as both Sean Casey and Peter Thomas look as if they might enjoy some hard rock now and then.

 

@kokakolia 

That stuff is either overpriced, overhyped, over-engineered with exotic hard-to-find parts, or all of the above. Everyone is trying to re-invent the wheel in the high-end market. Because the wheel is too basic, convenient and affordable. You're swimming with the sharks in a high-end market. The sharks are the salesmen. Furthermore, high-end equipment can be experimental and unreliable at times. 

Good argument, one that applies across the board.

I remember seeing one of the earliest large screen LCD TVs at a show in London when they were first coming out.

This one had a mediocre picture at best and cost £29,000!

We were told that Buckingham Palace had ordered one.

Who'd have thought the Queen would be at the cutting edge when it came to TVs?

Or perhaps it was the Queen mum, she was said to have enjoyed her horse racing on TV.

There's almost always a risk attached to cutting edge technology as well as a hefty premium to pay.

 

@mitch2 

Can speakers that are great at dynamics and drive also excel at detail and nuance?

That's an interesting question and one which even after some 30 years of experience in Hi-Fi, I'm not too sure of the answer.

I've certainly heard some very expensive speakers (£50k+) that definitely couldn't do both. They tended to be exotic designs where the designer wanted them to do certain things as best as they could even if it meant doing others far less well.

So, for some like-minded people they still might be reasonable value for money but for others they would be stupidly overpriced.

Ridiculously so.