Is going from a Ortofon Candenza Black to a Ortofon Winfield a lateral move?


I have an opportunity to pick up a very low use Winfield at a good price. That said, after moving my Cadenza Black I'll pay at least $750 for the Winfield. The Winfield retails for about $1,400 more but to me the specs look pretty similar. Anybody have any experience with these carts to provide some feedback? Thanks. 
bfoura

Showing 4 responses by justmetoo

Sorry a small error occurred.
The phono board setting by using my 1:20 SUT is of course set at 40db (and 49k ohm) as is common for most MM Cartridge, and zero added capacitance loading + the added 6db from the ML 326S pre amp. 
Michélle 🇿🇦 
I had originally a new Ortofon Jubilee and had issues with a slighly skew cantilever, which made me, upon its accepted replacement, move 'up' to the then original new PW, the one we seem to be talking about here, eh? 😉 

I NEVER managed to warm up to this one, and really not for lack of trying, sorry. 🙏 

And BTW, the original Peer Windfeld does NOT have the more advanced Replicant 100 stylus! It has a Shibata stylus, just like the Candenza Black, as well it neither has the titanium body either! 
I'm currently running my own Cadenza Black, also have the Quintet Black S by the way. Aquired both after selling my 'boring' PW... 😏 

So your question about their differences appears rather justified to me, despite some comments to the contrary! 

I also practically always use(ed) my SUT with any of them, a 1:20 Fidelity Research (its a passive item). 

So what's the difference between the old PW and the current Cadenza Black? 

Next to NOTHING in my experience, and I'm not at all nostalgically looking back at all to the original PW.
It was jolly bland in my system (look it up in my profile) and the Cadenza is without question doing the better job, for me. Amen

The PW Ti is a different item all together, not even a need to elaborate, however it has also a lower output then the Cadenza Black and old PW cartridge, which could be an issue? 

With my 1:20 SUT I'm fine by using the 60db ML 326S Phono board setting, plus a 6db boost from the 18db total boost available by this ML 326S preamp. So 66db is right on. 

My advise: stick with the Cadenza Black, unless you intend to spend major $$$ on the PW Ti, but make sure your own system will be up to showing any improvement!
See Raul's comment on that subject. 
M. 🇿🇦 
Well, I am a bit confused now, about the original Peer Windfeld's stylus... to say the least. 
I'm going back with this purchase well past 10 years, and unfortunately have not bothered to keep a documented spec. 
Looking at the presently posted specs by Ortofon I notice the item is now called 'MC Windfeld' (not 'Peer Windfeld') - to distinguish it from the 'Windfeld Ti', no doubt. 

And sure, to behold, it quotes (now?) a replicant 100 stylus, no question! 

For all I can recall, a 'Replicant' stylus was not even known back in ~ 2008! 
I'm open to be corrected. 

Also, I recall some lengthy heavy critiques being posted about the PW then, in short - boring presentation at a very high price - (and there was no Ti for a long while to come).
It all had resonated with my own listening experience. 

So many times during my ownership and minor system changes, i went back and re-tried this cartridge and never obtained a different result. EVER! 

I finally had it send back to be tested by the dealer and found 'working ok' on his different set-up, using a Lynn LP12 etc. 

Maybe the stylus/spec WAS changed during some time back?!? 🤔 

As I said, only to my knowing, this replicant 100 stylus came about only with the event of the A95 cartridge, and well after the creation of the early/original and brand new, the only top Ortofon cartridge, PW. 
The packaging alone something really way out, over the top - off the wall. I say. 

I'm open to corretion as I said - am I really getting that old?!? 🤔 
Baffled. 
Michélle 🇿🇦 
Wow, ok - now im beat, in more than one way.

BTW, in Raul’s cartridge ratings I’d have given this one a kindly 60—61.
He never rated that one either. Why? 🤔

I’m still baffled why my Cadenza Black sounds ’more normal’ than this super duper original Peer Windfeld ever did?!?
I’d rate the CB at 63+.

Some MMs I'd rate this high too, with a slight edge for timbre presentation. 

So did I trade in a diamond (PW), for a more middling gem-stone (CB) ?

And what about similar findings like my own, posted on the web at the time?

Lastly why was it needed to upgrade this PW to a PW Ti, having A90, A95, Anna, etc. ?!? 🤔 This, if it is such a top performer?

It is hard to discard some year old long ongoing frustrations with such an item, I admit, as just a weird prejudice? 

The original PW is close to CB in weight (a little heavier I recall), same body construction, same tracking force (VTF), 'same' (±) output voltage - and as for tracking ability... I even had some issues with sibilants, some more than I've now with my CB...😏

Finally I've had listened to some better presentations of MCs in my system than my now Quintet S and Cadenza Black (Transfiguration Orpheus, and some better Lyras come to mind), yet the PW just was reticent to all tweaking and adjustments.

And didn’t I try! As I had a hard time to accept this to be the case, it remained sort of ’flat’ / somehow harmonically restricted.

So it’s good to know others had more luck than I had.

Water under the bridge, eh.
😝
Michélle 🇿🇦