I guess these guys want to chat about things other than audio and stylus profiles, so I’ll take the cue and exit this thread right here. Maybe I’ll alert the moderators if I get around to it. Meanwhile, I’ll let the "arguments" from mijostyn and clearthink stand on their own juvenile ignorance.
Is elliptical the best stylus profile
In my experiences, it seems that elliptical shaped stylus track better and pretty much have the same amount of detail that a line contact has, maybe a little less. The difference, again in my experience is that the line contact needs to be set up perfectly for good performance. How many of us are experts at setup. Cartridge manufacturers, Why not just use elliptical shape and give everybody a break?
Showing 7 responses by cleeds
mijostyn it takes more force to move the stylus of a less compliant (stiffer) cartridge than a more compliant (softer) cartridge.Intuitively, that seems correct - but you can’t be sure sure that it works that way in practice. You’re not accounting for a pickup arm’s low friction, and that factor must be part of the equation for your assertion to be correct. Stylus profile is another wear factor that your claim overlooks, and you also need to consider the difference between a cartridge’s horizontal compliance and its vertical compliance. There are simply too many variables for your claim to be universally accurate. The question is what is the highest groove velocity you would see on records and can the cartridge get through it without mistracking.Not necessarily. Although it's HF that is typically the greatest challenge to accurate tracking, very low frequencies can also be an issue, such as is found on some of the 1812 demo LPs. By definition, low frequencies are low groove velocity. there are a number of cartridges I have never heard mistrackIt isn’t always easy to detect the HF distortion that is the result of mistracking. |
agrippa Sure, tracking *might* be a slight factor, but like mijostyn says above it's hard to find a modern cartridge which doesn't track quite well or better.That depends on what you mean by "doesn't track quite well." If you're stating that most modern cartridges will stay in the LP groove, I'd agree with you. If you mean most modern cartridges can sail through things like all six tracking bands on the Shure V15 Type V Audio Obstacle Course LP, I'd disagree, based on my own experience. In fact, Shure pressed those LPs specifically to show the tracking limitations of its competition, and some have not improved much - or at all - since. |
mijostyn Any cartridge is going to sound better when it is set up properly.Obviously! Tracking is paramount.Oh no, I couldn't disagree more. I often read user comments here about phono cartridges that proclaim, "excellent tracker!" when, in fact, the cartridge can objectively be shown to be a poor tracker. Tracking performance is properly assessed using a test record. That a cartridge will play an LP while also remaining in the groove is not sufficient evidence that the cartridge is a "good tracker." Any cartridge should be able to stay in the groove; it's low-distortion HF performance that defines the best tracking cartridges. Some of the best tracking phono cartridges of all time are also considered by many to have mediocre sound quality. The Shure V-15 V is a good example of that. Yes, some audiophiles love that cartridge! But there are good reasons why many audiophiles don't, and perhaps that explains (in part) why Shure left the cartridge business even as many of its cartridge competitors have thrived. |
To correct my own post above ▲▲▲▲▲▲ it was not quite accurate to say
there's no VTA
when using a conical stylus, because VTA describes the cantilever more than the stylus. What I should have said is that because of the conical stylus shape, there is no effect when changing the VTA, because it doesn't change the stylus' contact with the groove. (Of course, when you change the VTA by raising or lowering the pickup arm, you are changing the overhang, however slightly.) |
bimasta Aligning the stylus has more to do with the record groove than the stylus. There is one position, and one angle, in the groove where the most information can be extracted, with the most accuracy, regardless of stylus shapeThat may be mostly true, but it's not that simple. Consider that with a spherical stylus, there's really no such thing as VTA because the angle is the same regardless of the height of the pickup arm. As you advance to an elliptical stylus, VTA obviously becomes a factor in proper alignment. As you climb the scale to fine-line styli, hyper-elliptical, Shibata styli and other more refined shapes, some have established that SRA is the more critical angle. Of course, as you adjust SRA you also change VTA, but you can only optimize for one! So aligning for SRA may be the most important angle to optimize for some special stylus shapes, while VTA may be what you optimize for others. |