Integrated amplifier for Fritz Speakers

Okay Everyone,

I need your assistance!

The Fritz Carbons are in their final resting place at my wife's inherited home.

The front wall is15 feet wide and the side walls are 20 feet long, with a six foot opening on one side.

The backs of the speakers are about one foot from the front wall. They are about eight feet apart on either side of a cabinet/electric fireplace that is about twenty inches deep.

The speakers are about ten feet from the listening seat. I cannot adjust these logistics. The boss is surprisingly comfortable with the setup as it is...so I will not start a regional conflict. 

Using a Azur 640 CD player (15 years old), Axiom II passive, and a garage sale Niles 275 amp.

Detail is there, bass is there, soundstage is there, and no treble nasties.

BUT it sounds sterile.

I inserted a Soekris 1421 DAC. No real improvement. Maybe the Azur is not that bad...? 

What are your suggestions?  Is it the source or the amp?

Right now, I am listening to my main rig: Zu Audio Soul Sixes (as I argue with myself about Forte iv's {still a bit too "hot"}), 12 gauge copper wire, via PS Audio PMT, Mojo Audio B4B, Don Sachs pre, and First Watt F7. Ice Age interconnects. Sounds great, liquid, and violins are sweet. Nothing fancy. It makes me listen all of the time. 

Please and thanks!

Dsper

@mapman If I were you I’d strongly consider trying the Glow Audio Amp 1 with the Fritz.

This is interesting; but I not sure I want to fuss with tubes. Were you thinking the Glow Audio 1 or 2? Would five watts be enough to run the Carbons?

@donquichotte I don't know your amp...

You make some good observations. My opinion is that the Niles amp is not that good...I hadn't thought about the passive pre...maybe I should consider an integrated as space is an issue (the Don Sachs would never fit).

I was thinking maybe a Van Alstine control amplifier or give a PS Audio Stellar 300 a shot. Both are slim and would provide abundant power.

Typical problem - so many choices and I have heard but a small fraction of what is available. 

@erik_squires Luxman

Can you describe the house sound for Luxman? I am also looking for an amp that would work with both Zu Soul Sixes and for Klipsch Forte iv's.

Thanks all!

Had a conversation with Fritz about amps for the Carbons. He mentioned Belles and Van Alstine.

When I explained that I was using a passive preamp, he thought the 120 SET Control amp might not be my cup of tea. I really do not have the space for an active preamp, so I think that eliminates Van Alstine for this setup.

He also suggested Canary and felt they had a lot of good gear. 

I mentioned Glow Audio and he had not heard their amps. My impression was that he was subtlety suggesting 50 to 100 wpc would be better than a low power amp...I do not want to misrepresent the conversation, but my inference was that more tube watts was better....he certainly was not trying to talk me into anything.

good. ed iubtling

@mesch I am surprised he said that about the 120 SET amp

His remark was in the context of me currently using an Axiom II passive with the speakers, which Fritz felt was a pretty good passive. He was thinking the passive in the 120 SET would get me where I wanted to go...which is to eliminate the "sterile" sound of the current setup. 

I suppose that the SET 120 would be a definite step up from the Niles amp I am currently using with the Axiom.

My problem is that I do not understand the sound signature of the SET 120. Is it forward or laid-back, warm or cool, detailed or not, dynamic of not, etc.

I am looking for a bit warm and liquid.

Thanks for the ideas!

@ soix probably $1500 give or take. Thought maybe I could find a good used piece. I was wondering about Parasound or possibly Anthem.

Maybe a class D?

@ j_andrews can you share how you judge the sound differences between the Carbons and Carrera I would have the same setup as your room but with 8 foot ceilings 

@jeffrey125 would love to go with tubes but don't want any hassle in a location that is far from my stash. I have a pair of Quicksilver horn monos that would probably work. But also figured an integrated would take up less space.

Thank you !

Lots of good advice here. Thanks everyone!

@jjss49 and @j_andrews I appreciate the sound characterization of the Fritz speakers. This was the sort of info I was hoping to obtain. I had a pair of Tyler Speakers with cloth dome tweeters and they were a bit too laid back for my tastes. I might find the same situation with the Carbons...

This is going to be work! I appreciate everyone's advice to think this through a bit. For example, my First Watt F7 amp paired with Klipsch Forte iv's resulted in an enjoyable listen but the "I am here" presence of the Forte's is lost.

I certainly should speak with Fritz again. He and I talked last fall when I was inquiring whether he still built any towers (he does not).

And we have not even discussed the source yet. Due to space constraints, I need to think CD player and not separate DAC and transport, so another opportunity...

Thanks, again!

@j_andrews Mixed feelings to be very honest.

It controlled the Forte 12 inch woofer but just made the highs too polite. Very smooth sound, but not what i would characterize as liquid. 

The Forte's can boogie and put you in the room when paired with Don Sachs preamp and amp. YMMV!

also made the tew

Just wanted everyone to know I appreciated the discerning responses in this thread. I have reread  it a couple of times and something new sticks in my brain each time.

AVA has been mentioned by several of you. I had spoken with Frank in February and he suggested that I wait a couple of months as they were implementing a change to reduce noise. He was more descriptive than that, but I do not recall the exact terminology, sorry. He also confirmed that there are only silver face plates. Of course, when asked, my wife stated it needed to be a black faceplate. I forgot the "it is easier to beg forgiveness" rule!

I have a call into Fritz. I think I generally prefer as much detail as possible from a tweeter. My experience with soft domes is I feel like they are a bit laid back and I am missing something. We'll see what Fritz suggests.

Hi All, 

I spoke with Fritz and described my set-up and what speakers I have enjoyed listening to in the in the past. He suggested the Carbons versus the Carreras. 

A new pair of Carbons arrived today and have been playing for about four CD's worth of music. I simply placed them where a pair of Zu Audio Soul Sixes were running and have not fiddled with placement. About three feet from front wall, ten feet apart, and about eight and a half feet front my ears. In this setup, there is about twenty feet behind me. Using a First Watt F7 amp and Don Sachs preamp. PS Audio MWT and Mojo Audio B4B DAC.

Initial thoughts are quite positive. Very easy to listen to. Good bass and detail. They seem a bit fleshier than the Soul Sixes but not quite as warm. Fiddles sound sweet. There is good nuance to the mid range and power to the music. Soundstage is between and behind the speakers. The ten foot span between the speakers is full. I think the treble is a bit muddy at the furthest most extension, just a hint of sibilance. Break in time needed I am sure. This will help dynamics as well, I expect.

Their final location will be in a smaller room (20 X 15) and should be able to really fill that space.

Will be fun to hear them break in and play with my tube amps as well.

In the meantime, my initial opinion is that these are very good speakers.

Again, thanks for the advice.

Thanks for the advice. Will do some experimenting.

@larsman if those Carbons are new and anything like the Carrerra's I have, in a few hundred hours they will sound nothing like they do now.

You are correct about the sound changing. I am at about 50 hours and it seems like the treble has suddenly gotten more forward and accentuated...less laid back.

FWIW, I am finding that higher efficiency, easier to drive speakers are a lot of fun. One is not obsessed with high power amps required to run inefficient speakers, so you can concentrate on the overall sound. 

For example, I had read about First Watt products and decided to try one. I picked the F7 because I was persuaded that the damping factor of the amp would do a good job driving the Forte iv woofer. 

It did that but also veiled the presence of the horns in the Fortes. The law of unintended consequences.

But the real learning for me is that I am starting to truly listen to what I am hearing. 

Anyway, the F7 is currently a good match with the Carbons. Interestingly, I can tell when the F7 gets warmed up after being shut off overnight. The sound changes for the better quite dramatically to my ears. I have heard that sort of things with tubes but not so much with solid state.