Uberwaltz--
Thank you. Nobody else mentioned using the Post Office. I have made over 300 tube amps from scratch. I'm also a retired Postmaster. The amps I mailed went through the Post Office. Never an issue.
Then again, i always did double box and significantly over pack.
It's much easier to spend a little time and effort on bulletproof packingthan dealing with a long distance claim.
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Spin4cards-
Maddening, I know. For "premium" services like Priority, Express, and COD,
the insurance is included up to a certain amount. The firm can't include big insurance automatically because the few claimants would raise rates for all.
If you've got something truly valuable, Registered is the way to go. It's not only much safer but when we're talking thousands in value, it actually costs less.
Based on the name, I presume that you're mailing mainly Baseball cards and things of that sort. Small, light, inexpensive to mail while still possiblycontaining items of considerable value. Those are going First Class which has long been the basic letter rate. Those aren't automatically insured because of the volume realized. At least that's my take. Upper Managementnever gives us any rationale as to the why of things. We get the rates and guidelines and very rarely the thought behind why they are set.
In any case, First Class being the basic rate for small items not mailed in bulk can be insured, as you note, but aren't automatically. Imagine, if you will, if all letters carried some sort of insurance. We're not talking millions of pieces in that category but billions. I used to get calls all the time about what one can do if a letter goes astray. A lot of those letters contained checks of various stripes, some quite large. While there are clumsy mechanisms in place that help us stumble through finding packages, even small ones, letter rate being both small and exceedingly numerous, poses a real problem. Should the Post Office include some sort of indemnity on the smallest, most numerous items, one could expect a deluge of claims thatwould raise rates to uncomfortable levels.
Now Officially, I don't know any of that. That's never Officially stated anywhere that I know of and I was there for over 45 years before retiring a few months ago. Common sense though leads me to those conclusions.
To oversimplify, For 50¢ what do you expect?
Realistically, there could be some sort of separation between actual letters and Small Parcels with the small parcel category including some sort of indemnity. I don't know that it's ever been proposed. Those things go through the Postal Rate Commission and we have some serious, high level intellect operating there. At the local level we're frequently puzzled with what goes on higher up the chain.
Isn't that the case with every business?
If there's something that I've neglected in my aimless ramblings here, please do ask. I've likely missed something and I'll do my best to reply.
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While there is a 70 pound limit that would eliminate some of these items from consideration, Registered Mail can have insurance for up to $25,000with no issues. The items are passed from hand to hand in the Post Office with each person that handles the piece personally responsible. Those items do not go through the regular mail in any fashion. For a higher fee, armed guards are used. It's an archaic system that has never really needed an update. That's because it works.
The Hope Diamond went to the Smithsonian via Registered Mail.
I'm just sayin'...
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Yep, that's what I thought. Somebody looking for something for nothing.
Now by your own admission, when you insure your business, you pay for it.You're proud of that. Do you expect your insurance company to accept indemnity for your belongings because you're a responsible individual?Nope. you pay your way. You said as much.
On the other hand, you expect the Post Office and by implication, all other carriers to assume liability for your items for basically nothing. It doesn't work that way. There's a cost involved. Insurance is available for the prudent buyer. That's a cost of doing business.
Quite a few years ago, during nuclear disarmament talks, Edward Shevardnadze, the representative of the Soviet Union said "There's no free launch".
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spin4cards-
There's a scene in
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
where the Yankee has an economics discussion with a local. The two disagree. The Yankee has a moment of inspiration and shows in detail how his position is correct. It's wonderful. The discussion is over. he's proven his case in a manner beyond dispute.
That's when he realizes that he's having a discussion with an addle pate, a buffoon that is simply incapable of understanding the simplest of things. I've always thought it a great moment in literature as it illustrates a situation that we sometimes find ourselves in.
Ahem.
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uberwaltz-
Well, you never know when you're going to open up Pandora's can of worms, do you?
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Well, I suppose I should respond. Everyone always knows how to do your job better than you do. Anyone who has ever worked a job knows that.
Firstly-spin4cards, the Post office is a business saddled with a Congress mandated retirement system that requires pre-funding of retirees 75 years in advance. That's right, those not yet born are required to be funded. There is no other business in the world with such a requirement. That's simply a matter of record. It's easy enough to verify that. Please take the time to do so. Why such an absurd pre-funding requirement? Ask your people in Congress. That's why the yearly tally sheets look the way they do. Yes, preposterous but not for the reason that you surmise.
Now, I'm reluctant to go into Postal business here, not only because I'm retired and not able to speak on behalf of the firm any longer, but because it's so terribly boring. Since I retired I've been trying to leave all that behind.
As I understand the premise advanced by spin4cards, everything mailed should automatically carry insurance commensurate with the value of the item sent. Supposedly, that would be for UPS, FedEx, what have you but let's confine the discussion to the Post Office.
Premium services such as Priority, Express, COD, and such all do include insurance, and Insurance is the correct term, for a specified amount depending on type of service used. Should all of them have included insurance automatically covering whatever is inside the box?
How about goldfish marked this side up? "It's marked this side up, can't your people read?" How about expensive jewelry? "What do you mean I won't be covered for the full amount if I don't buy extra coverage?"What about a motorcycle frame, no box, just tags with the postage tied on?What about a full size collectors print with a glass overlay like the Mona Lisa with glass ready to shatter and destroy the item? What about Human Remains? What about a bomb?
Those aren't examples drawn from a book. I've encountered all of those. I had a customer that collected ceramic cookie jars. Every week she would get a couple of them. Half had no packing and were cracked. She would try to file claims. Then there was the guy that sent me the Hammond Organ amp that I bought on eBay. 50 pounds and he just threw it in a box. No packing at all. The amp was fine but the box was lacerated from the sharp edges so the parcels around that package were damaged.
Then there was the company in Maine that deals in Maple Syrup. They can fit two gallon jugs of the stuff in a big Priority box just fine. No room for packing though. That means that when a gallon jug breaks, all the other parcels in the hamper get soaked in maple syrup.
Then there was the time that I had to call the local bank to come and pick up all the statements that they had mailed. Some guy had boxed a bottle of red wine, no packing, and dumped it in the parcel drop. Of course the bottle broke. Red wine on everything.
Those are just a few anecdotes. I get nostalgic. Still, should all of those parcels have carried automatic insurance to the value of the contents?Should an old pillow be mailed at a higher rate because the mailer of the jewelry does not want to pay for the insurance to cover the specific value of what she was mailing? Should postage for all rise to cover those few that mail high value items and don't want to bear the burden of shouldering the responsibility for their own actions? Should people that don't need or want insurance pay a higher freight to cover others that should but don't want to?
Let's look a little deeper. The original complaint was regarding not services that already carry some insurance, it was about items at minimal postage rate. We're talking first class letter rate. There has never been insurance on first class letter rate or first class small parcel rate. No country in the world does that unless you add optional extra services. Go to the internet, find the Universal Postal Union in Bern Switzerland. Have a look. Every country is there. The UPU governs all that. Try to find one that offers free insurance for letter rate. Be my guest.
Let's not stop there though, where indeed does this stop? First class letters and first class parcels are one thing, do we then carry the idea to cover newspapers, magazines, Dollar Shave Club? See where this goes?
Now it has been stated that when one mails something, a contract is established between the mailer and the company selling the product. Effectively true but, every contract is spelled out in specific verbiage of some sort. The mailing contract is right on the website, on the placards on the walls, and so forth. While one may by imputation think that there should be insurance included in mailings at a basic rate, such has never been the case. Honestly, if I ran a card shop and mailed a Honus Wagner card or a mint rookie Mickey Mantle and didn't ask for insurance commensurate with the value of the item that I was mailing, I would be considered rather foolish, wouldn't I?
Let's forget about corner card shops for the moment and consider how the professionals look at this. The largest single mailer that uses the Post Office is Amazon. Amazon uses a form of bulk business mail. That's a bargain basement rate. Why do they do that? Well, it carries no insurance but it's cost effective. The loss they realize because of uninsured packages either being damaged or lost is trivial compared to the money that they would spend if they had a rate that included a factored in insurance. Don't think for a moment that they haven't considered it both ways and come to a conclusion as to which is the superior method for their business model.
Jeff Bezos is worth about 150 billion.
Get the picture?
Remember, in no fashion do I speak for the Post Office. I'm retired. I'm just a guy now. Spin4cards asked me a question and didn't like my answer. Well that kinda too bad. I don't set the rates. If you've got a problem with how things have been done since 1775 or so, please contact the Postmaster General, Washington D.C. 20265.
Over and out.
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Naperaudio and Fleschler,
Thank you for your support. After years of dealing with the public I developed both a thick skin and head. Most I dealt with, 98% or something were fine people. There was always a certain element of madness out there though. Some were only rude. A few were really in need of help.
That's just life in the big city. It has its charms.
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spin4cards-
Please see my previous post regarding the Mark Twain book.By the way, I loved to play basketball. I played center...
Moderator, please do your unseemly task with our little friend.I think he could use a time out.
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Builder3--
Unfortunately, you're completely wrong. That's hard to understand when you can just, as you suggest, Google it. The Post Office hasn't taken ANY taxpayer money since 1970. That's when the Postal Reorganization Act went through. Please take your own advice and Google it. Check the Federal Times if you like. Anyone can make a mistake but now you've doubled down on something that's simply not true. Please, do your homework.
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czarivey,
Trust me, I have no illusions of perfection with my former employer. I dealt with aggressive mis-management at many levels for years. Policies that say one thing and actions that say another. Vehicles that passed their estimated lifespan well over a decade ago still limping along. I could go on, really I could, for a very long time. I don't miss it at all. While you're absolutely correct about the lack of perfection, the firm really didn't take tax dollars. They couldn't. Federal mandate and all that. Yes, their own documents will portray perfection when made for rally the troops purposes as shown. For what it's worth, those are true statements on the document, they just neglect the downsides.
The Office of the Inspector General documents however are frequently scathing. Their internal reviews are feared because they tell it like it is. You get the good and the bad. The OIG has a good corps of analysts and comes up with not only succinct reviews but creative suggestions that are usually not implemented. I didn't compare the Post Office to UPS in any regard. With that in mind, a Post Office without flaws is a Utopia that I've never seen. If only...
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Builder3-
The issue with the USPS pensions is that they are required by Government mandate to pre-fund 75 years of projected retirements in ten years. No other companies have that requirement. Certainly not tons of them. None of them. That's obviously relevant to the balance sheet dilemma
The USPS does have issues that could and should be corrected internally. Believe me, I tried when I worked there. The larger the company the more resistant to change the company becomes. That's an over-generalization to be sure but it applies not only to the Post Office, a huge organization, but even more so to the government in general.
Yes, you're completely right about the government. Will Rogers covered the topic extensively. Many things have changed. Unfortunately, many have not.
Those in power tend to become little kings protecting their kingdoms and interest to the detriment of those that live under their jurisdiction.
There's nothing new about that. Roman Senators spring to mind as an example. The enlightened few that fall outside of the norm there are altogether too rare.
So yes, I think you're right that we agree more than not.
That pension deal though...
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Why the big pension liability only for the USPS? If general speculation is correct, it's because of a drive to privatize the company. Needless to say, if that large a company was forced to privatize, there would be a lot of money to be made by someone that inherited/acquired the business. I'm no conspiracy type guy. Even so, it's hard to not consider that partly because of the parties involved in the legislation and because of the very large sums of money to be made. Money is a big motivator.
That's why.
Hopefully, this will be my last post ever regarding my old job.
Say Hallelujah.
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