Installing Dedicated Power Lines -- Need Advice
They’re full of it for saying their unit is so good it obviates the need for anything else. Nothing obviates the need for anything else. Nobody ever made anything that couldn’t be improved upon. But that’s just me. The guy you are asking as if you still trust him (immediately after saying you don’t trust him). Look at it this way. What they are saying is they have a power supply that is so perfect nothing can possibly make it any better. Forget all the technical details, that is what they are saying. Strip away all the window dressing, what they are really saying is they made the perfect product. So good nothing you or Decware or anyone else can ever do to make it any better. Do you believe them? |
😳 Serves me right for embellishing the story, you missed the main point: in spite of what the manufacturer told me I went ahead and found out for myself. Most people are so scared and submissive it takes a lot to get them out of the feelings of helplessness our culture has so deeply beat into them. The point of the stories and House is not to say the manufacturer is lying in this specific instance. He is, but that is not the point. The point is to get you to do your own due diligence, to think, and to figure it out for yourself. PSAudio is full of it. But I only know this on the basis of knowledge and experience far beyond anything I could ever post here. Even then guess what? Everyone lies! I just do it a lot less than most. But if instead of trusting the manufacturer you turn around and trust me just as blindly, well then I have yet again failed to get my point across. |
Circling back to the Decware vs. regenerator issue. Here is what P.S. Audio wrote to me when I asked them about using both: "I don’t agree with the statement from Decware [that Decware's conditioner can be used in addition to a regenerator]. We do not recommend a line conditioner in conjunction with our power regenerators. We do feel that they can limit the power coming in from the wall by using high/low pass filters which do essentially choke the electricity to the regenerator." First time I called a manufacturer asking about something like this was around 1992. Mr Aronov assured me they use only the finest caps and there is nothing to be gained and we will not be responsible when you ruin our fine amp. Went ahead and was shocked how much better it sounded with $5 worth of HEXFRED diodes. Liquid, deep, black, the works. Tried the same thing a few more times until I gave up, finally realizing no manufacturer will ever tell you the truth, "We use the cheapest parts we feel we can get away with, and why not, I have a family to feed, and have you seen what a Ferrari costs these days?" Hard to argue. But what about power cords, fuses, vibration control? Let me assure you, deja vu all over again. Not only manufacturers. When I was new to autocross I went around asking guys what tire pressure they run. It's a club, friendly competition, they will tell me, right? Ha! Don't make me laugh! One guy seriously told me he doesn't know- WHILE HOLDING THE GAUGE TO THE VALVE STEM! Your homework assignment if you want to be the best audiophile you can be is to watch every episode of House, MD. There you will learn the most important lesson: here let me get you off to a good start- https://youtu.be/HgXpvzt7Qg8?t=105 |
A ground loop is nothing more than the current has different paths to ground. This always happens, because even on one circuit there are lots of things plugged in. What you want to avoid is different electrical potentials. As long as they are all the same, or very close to the same, then no problem. This is why often times people are able to get away with running off more than one line. You could run a separate dedicated line to every component, each with its own conditioner (or not) and have no problem as long as they all have equal ground potential. Where the hum and noise comes in is when it is different. How different? When will it be a problem? Only way of knowing, do it and find out. So these things are more good housekeeping or good practice than guarantees. The one good thing about a dealer is you can bring the thing home and try it. Only problem, I have heard enough of these things to guarantee just about any of them will sound to you like a big improvement. It is only after going to the trouble of comparing a bunch of them that you will be able to figure out if one is better than another for the money. Do that enough times and then you are able to look at something like the Decware and go, yeah totally worth it. But you kind of have to go through it. Look at the neverending amplifier thread to see just how endless that kind of thing can be. Don't know what the JPS Power wire costs, or what your budget is. But I can tell you this. Look at my system. Read the details. Notice I am not recommending you use cryogenically treated wire, 240V step down, etc, etc. Why is that? Because it doesn't work? No. It totally works. But I have learned over the years there are lots of things that are way more bang for your buck. If it was me now (and I was paying electricians and having to follow code like you are) I would use ordinary 10 gauge, Synergistic Orange outlet, and spend the rest on HFT, ECT, PHT, Orange Fuses, Townshend Pods and Podiums, F1, stuff like that. The day you stick an Orange Fuse in your amp, or put it on Pods, or put your speakers on Podiums, or put HFT on your speakers, you will know what I'm talking about. |
2. I've already purchased two Furutech GTXD-NCF duplexes with matching NCF covers and GTX Wall Plates. Does each duplex need its own breaker to isolate from the other? No. And you only need one outlet. Let me expand on that. Ideally you only need one outlet for one condititioner, everything plugs into that. This minimizes ground loop issues to pretty much zero. It is nice to have one free outlet to plug whatever into. Lamp, whatever. Main thing is you want everything that is a connected together part of the system to all be plugged into just the one circuit. If you can get a conditioner with enough outlets to do that, fine. If you have something like a lot of subs to plug in, those are less particular with power they can plug straight into the wall, but they still are part of the system and must be on the same circuit to avoid ground loop noise. Keep this one simple principle in mind it will avoid an awful lot of grief. My architect says our main panel is getting crowded and is urging me to limit to two breakers for the audio rig.First, you only need one breaker for the whole system. Second, if you do need to add breakers and no space get a thin twin. These are two breakers designed to take up half the space of a normal one. Take one of your non-critical circuits like a bathroom/bedroom and swap the two breakers to one thin twin. Then use the free space to do the room. 3. I will be purchasing some kind of power conditioner/distributor. Can digital be plugged into the same conditioner as analog?Yes. 5. Would I plug my tube integrated directly into the outlet or can it go to a power conditioner?Either way. As long as you do as above, no problem. If your conditioner is any good however then it will sound a whole lot better plugged into the conditioner. Any time you hear anything like this conditioner is good for this but not that, run, this is what we call a crappy conditioner. The good ones are good for everything, period. Right now Decware has one, that I haven't heard but looks to be very good indeed. https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZLC.html Keep in mind that since this is sold direct, like all Decware, you would at least double the price to find anything comparable at retail. 6. If I buy speakers that each have an onboard Class D amp for subwoofers that need to be plugged in, can they be on the same circuit as the power amp? Yes. They should be. See above. I'm considering getting two single outlets closer to the speakers to avoid a long power cable run to each of them.I would avoid this. Use passive subs like I do powered by a Dayton SA1000 for all the bass anyone could ever want and run ordinary cheap 14ga wire off a reel. Lastly, did your electrician know this stuff and advise you or did you have to educate yourself completely? Electrician? We don't need no steenking electrician! This whole system, everything you see and a whole lot more, is all me. It ain't rocket surgery you know. |
What you want is one line that runs direct from the panel to your system outlet in the room. Use the largest gauge wire you can, which with an electrician means 10ga on a 20A line. Buy a Synergistic Research Orange outlet for him to install in place of the usual crap. You can go way beyond that of course, the key word being "you". https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 This is the room of a guy who has done it all, knows what it costs, and what sound quality you get for the money. This is the voice of experience. |
