I first heard the Innuos Statement music server at AXPONA 2019. I listened to a demonstration directly comparing the Statement to the Innuos' Zen MkII. After the demonstration, it was clear to me that the Statement was a large step forward in the Innuos product line. I recently purchased the Innuos Statement and took delivery (after a six week wait). I immediately plugged it in, set it up, (super easy) and downloaded .5 TB of WAV files overnight. After burning in the Statement for approximately 100 hours, I compared the Statement's performance to the Antipodes DX3 music server. In order to have as close a comparison as possible (in relative real time) I connected both servers to my Jeff Rowland (JR) Aeris DAC+PSU using the same brand of cables (Stealth). However, because the Aeris DAC has only one USB input and both the Statement and the Antipodes DX 3 only have USB output, I first ran the Statement through a Berkeley USB Alpha converter and connected the Alpha converter to the Aeris DAC using Stealth's Vardig Sextet V16-T BNC/BNC cable. The Stealth USB Select-T cable connected the Statement to the Aeris DAC. The rest of the system consisted of a JR Corus Preamp (connected to the aforementioned PSU), JR M925 mono amplifiers, Joseph Audio Pearl 3 speakers and a three REL subwoofer "swarm" configuration. Cardas Clear Beyond power cords, balanced ICs, and speaker cables were used throughout the system. Both servers were used as Roon Cores for the comparison/review. I own all the equipment; I don't work for any audio company. (I also don't pump my stuff to dump it later.) I focused on music selections I know well across the genres of rock/pop, jazz, classical, soul/R&B, and classical. I used a "non-blind" method playing a 1 minute 30 second to 2 minute section of a recording before switching from one server to the other and then repeating the same recording for an immediate comparison. I did the comparison over a two hour period, taking periodic listening breaks. Before providing my overall impressions of the Antipodes Statement, I note that I immediately compared the Statement to the Antipodes DX3 without burning the Statement in. The Antipodes DX3 had been thoroughly burned in before the comparison (more than 500 hours of use). Without burn in, the Statement and the Antipodes DX 3 sounded very similar to one another. I'm confident that I would have been guessing which was which if I was blindfolded and had to name the server I was hearing on any given recording. I repeated this exercise after the Statement had burned in for one hour. At this point it seemed the Statement's soundstage had gotten a little wider and only slightly deeper. It also seemed the vocals on the Statement had become slightly clearer than on the Antipodes DX3. I did no further comparisons until now. The following are my subjective impressions of the Statement after four days of burn in compared to the Antipodes DX 3 server in my system. The Statement threw a slightly wider soundstage than the Antipodes DX3. The Statement had a significantly deeper soundstage than the Antipodes DX3. The Statement and the Antipodes DX3 had the same soundstage height. The Statement resolved moderately more than the Antipodes DX3. By this I mean it provided more recording details than the Antipodes DX 3. It was not a night and day difference. It was apparent on most, but not all, recordings I considered. Vocals presented clearer/crisper (better "enunciation" if you will) via the Statement than the Antipodes DX3. The Statement provided superior bass differentiation in the lowest and mid bass regions. With the Statement, the bass drum performance did not cloud either a stand up bass or electric bass performance--provided the recording/mastering engineers sufficiently separated the performances on the recording. The Antipodes DX3 is a very good bass performer. But it slightly trailed the Statement. The Statement placed more air between the instruments and performers than the Antipodes DX3. The Statement excelled at acoustical instrument presentation. A reeded instrument sounded convincingly "real." The Antipodes DX3 does this well too...just not as well. Percussion instruments also benefit from this attribute. The Statement allowed me to hear more definition in the wood block, the guiro, shakers, all cymbals I heard, chimes, a gong. Again, the Antipodes DX3 was very good at percussive instrument representation. The Statement was simply better. Both the Statement and the Antipodes DX3 provided high quality believable piano reproduction in all genres. The only significant difference I heard between the two servers on piano performance was found in Alfredo Rodriguez's rendition of "Chan Chan." There, the Statement seemed to handle the quick staccato notes and the unique decay issues of this piece more believably than the Antipodes DX3. But the difference was not night and day. My overall impression of the Statement is that it provided superior high quality, believable digital music reproduction regardless of genre. I consider it an across the board upgrade in musical reproduction in my system over the Antipodes DX3. My impression of the Antipodes DX3 is that it is a high value product that held up very well in comparison to the Statement. The Statement retails for twice as much as the DX3's retail price when it was in production. If the Statement's performance after four days of burn in was rated as a 100 I would rate the Antipodes DX3 completely burned in as a 75. I will be keeping both these music servers. Hopefully this review helps those in the market for a music server.
Serendipitously did I land here -not so much from 'boredom'.
Yes, it's obvious that:" And flawed as may be, SPDIF / AES legacy protocol still remains a universal standard among many manufacturers" but thet doesn't excuse it from being a near-useles (seriously) flawed specification for high-resolution/performance requirements -as audiotroy correctly pointed out.
“audiotroy2,514 posts07-04-2019 10:14amTo Lalik and a few others lets frame this discussion, that for 99.9% of the market that is looking for a Statement or other serious state of the art music servers, most people are going to be actually using either USB or Ethernet connections. The other interesting point we would differ on from Lalik is his viewpoint that most dacs are optomized for 16/44k really?.”
@allhifi,
You must be really bored! Not sure why you felt like digging a year old post...lol! If one thing I can agree with you is your point on,
“Manufacturer's reluctance tto adopt the i2S 'spec' -20 years ago,if not longer- raises questions regarding their own understanding of clock-recovery precision on performance capability.”
As of today, there is no collective standard agreement among manufacturers to implement i2s protocol. We are continuing to see HDMI and Ethernet ports denoted as i2s thus causing incompatibility issues between components. And flawed as may be, SPDIF / AES legacy protocol still remains a universal standard among many manufacturers.
(D/T: You were rather polite not to draw attention to the seriously flawed spdif specification; it was, and remains a poor digital transmission scheme -recovering clock data/syncing being particularly probelematic. Its time has mercifully, come to a near end. That a few manufacturer's (of modern Streamers/Player's) use BNC/AES-EBU I suspect is simply for their familiarity with the specification, and NOT on any of its perceived superiority. With that said, Wrd. Clk integration and dual AES/or BNC) may is another story altogether -as is i2S (over HDMi/RJ-45). Manufacturer's reluctance tto adopt the i2S 'spec' -20 years ago,if not longer- raises questions regarding their own understanding of clock-recovery precision on performance capability.)
pj
audiotroy2,514 posts07-04-2019 10:14amTo Lalik and a few others lets frame this discussion, that for 99.9% of the market that is looking for a Statement or other serious state of the art music servers, most people are going to be actually using either USB or Ethernet connections.
The other interesting point we would differ on from Lalik is his viewpoint that most dacs are optomized for 16/44k really?
Most of the worlds top digital manufacutures are all producing dacs that can handle very high data rates, other than older dacs with chipsets or inputs that can't handle the higher resolution files this is the case.
Look at DCS, Esoteric, EMM Labs, Light Harmonic, T+A, Rokna, Aqua Hifi. MSB, and many others, they all have access to be able to play high resolution files. Does that mean that an older dac that can't play those files isn't good of course not, but we live in a world of 4k TV doesn't it make sense if you are purchasing a brand new state of the art TV to purchase one which can access those files even if true 4k content is limited?
Then you have the ability for many TV's or projectors to upconvert an image to a 4k standard even when feeding the TV or projector a 2k image, if it looks better to you do you care that the image isn't native?
The reason that many modern dacs only offer ethernet or usb is really simple: asyncronous data transmission and ethernet packeted data are the best ways of miminimizing jitter going from a server to a dac.
Spdif, Aes/Ebu and Toslink are really not up to the task beyond conventional data rates.
With Ethernet and Usb you have the advantages:
You have the option of accessing: Naitve DSD files, MQA files
Also you have the additonal option of being able to upconvert 16bit 44k pcm to higher data rates 24bit 192k, 384k and above depending on the server and dac.
Many Dacs that we sell actually do seem to sound better with upconverted data files even if the standard files started out in 16/44.
If you consider that Innous specifically built the Statement to provide the best sounding data from Ethernet and USB and they spent considerable money on making sure those pathways are the best sounding and optomized it makes sense.
We sell multiple brands of severs, and dacs because one size does not fit all. If you are adament about having more or different digital outputs then USB and Ethernet then you are free to purchase a unit which has those features.
Its been a while since anyone posted here. I was at a local dealer today and I can proudly say that I steered someone way from the Statement to the CX/EX combo. He's a rich guy so money isn't going to be a factor to him. I didn't knock that statement but did tell him that Antipodes product sound signature is more liquid and relaxed. He knows I spend a lot of time listening. The dealer also agreed and while the statement is more expensive it wasn't about money more the sound signature preference.
I have finally setup my system to 95% of the way I want it. Won’t go into details but I can say now with confidence that I literally feel like I’m in the studio with the artists like they are there beside me and I think that’s what a lot of us want but never can quite attain to.
It’s taken a lot of money time effort, knowledge gathering but there’s that 5% still but going to give my wallet a little rest for now and enjoy what I have in audio bliss.
Hoping the rest of you can attain this regardless of what system you end up buying as you all know I’ve done it with my preferred Antipodes CX/EX setup... I can speak only for myself in that I prefer a nice listening session over a fine wine, delicious meal, dessert ; that’s how good things are now... if your not there yet... well... keep eating fine meals till you do.... later !
There are many good options ; I was impressed with the pink faun... strange name... for a one box solution. I still think the best solution is to keep core and render separate as per Roon...
In an effort to provide folks reading this thread with more breadth and depth on the Innuos Statement versus Antipodes CX+EX comparison, I asked for comments on the subject over on What's Best Forum. See below a response I received last night: "Maybe I can jump in as I have the Antipodes CX+EX combo ( and since very
recently the SGM Extreme). The same dealer is also doing Innuos ( Lumin
and Memory Player as well ) so comparison is easy.
My ranking:
1)SGM Extreme
2) Innuos Statement
3) Antipodes CX+EX
And I used to have Melco MK2,Aurender N10,Lumin A1/S1/U1.
The long story:
I was looking for a server to replace my Melco/Lumin combo. At that time
I compared Antipodes combo vs older models of SGM. SGM was better but
not by a wide margin and given the price difference I went for
Antipodes. Beyond the sound quality, very versatile in terms of software
( roon,Lumin,bubble,hqplayer etc...) and storage capacity can be easily
extended. Innuos Statement was not available at that time. I was
eagerly waiting for that model but it took a long time for it to be
released. Once released I compared it to the Antipodes. It sounded very
organic,very smooth, low noise floor but I was not 100% convinced it was
a substantial upgrade vs what I have and the price difference.
Then I heard the SGM Extreme...Ouch, this server is on a completely
another level , probably not as smooth sounding as the Statement but in
terms of dynamics,resolution,image there is no comparison. ( the price
is different as well...)
To go back to my ranking, to me the gap between the number 1 and number 2
is much much wider than between the number 2 vs number 3.
So if you can afford it, swallow the pill ( it took me 6 months...) and order SGM Extreme, you will be done.
If not, order the Statement or the Antipodes, you will be extremely
pleased as well. I would say here is more a trade off between price
difference between both units in your country,versatility ,design (
Antipodes looks like a computer) than significant gap in terms of sound
quality.
The Statement's PSU is extremely quiet. For clarity, it doesn't generate "massive" noise. If it did, I would have noted that fact in the review. I don't know whether the Statement will come down in price or not. I had to wait a fairly long time to get mine because demand was outpacing supply. I'm not sure how the Antipodes CX+EX combo is selling. It might be doing great. Here is a direct question for those reading this thread. Besides @hehaw77, has anyone else heard the Antipodes CX+EX combo? Does anyone else own the CX+EX combo? And if so, could you please provide a detailed assessment of your thoughts about the server combination? Whether it is positive, negative or neutral, please weigh in.
The 2 piece core and render-er is what Roon itself recommends.
To me this is a flaw regardless of brand. Including the ultra crazy pink faun which I reviewed a little while ago.
Secondly these are stand alone units they don't have to be used together. They are separate units and can be used as such. I had the EX before I ordered the CX to get to the next level. To me the EX alone is a match for the statement... that's right ... a match. It's a different sound signature as I've spoken about in other posts. Which of course I prefer.
That's right you have a massive noise generating power supply right underneath your player. Then you also have two power cords with more noise potential. If I had bought that unit. I would immediately have been looking to upgrade the 2 stock power cords to something high quality.
It's also bulky looking (my opinion) some of you may like the look. The EX/CX units are small and light. I can pick up one unit with one arm.
Which by the way my local dealer did try to get me to buy the statement. He now has the Antipodes units. Smart move on his part.
It's not nice to have one built into the unit its a noise source should be outside the unit.
That's another advantage if you don't have the funds right away to go cx ex you can just buy the ex ... affordable as far as music players/servers go ... and then upgrade from there.
EX retail is 5099 CAD 4K US CX retail is 7800 CAD 6K US
Don't quote me on exact Antipodes pricing...
I paid way less than this 8900 US for both.. that's right 8900 (taxes included) so the person who was saying it comes out to the same is not correct. If you know how to bargain of course.... yes brand new units.
Statement retail price below excluding taxes....
1TB SSD £9 800 • €11 000 • $13 750 • CAD$17 900
2TB SSD £10 300 • €11 500 • $14 400 • CAD$18 900
4TB SSD £10 800 • €12 100 • $15 150 • CAD$19 700
Again I'll say that when listening to the Statement I liked it so those of you that own it don't assume I'm slamming it. I just didn't like it as much as the Antipodes... I think its overpriced... Eventually they will cut pricing (if they want to move units) or maybe not if the other models do well. Personally I think they will.... sorry present Statement owners.
As for SSD drive space 650 for an extra TB? I can easily get 2TB SSD for that
Hewhaw why would a two piece with a separate power supply that sits directly underneath the CPU/Drive section be any more strange than a two piece Core and Renderer?
With the Statement you have a massive power supply that sits directly under the main chassis forming essentially one unit, the two power supply umbilical cords are included and therefore you only need one external high quality power cord vs requiring two with the Antipodes.
As per noise with the burner most people are not listening while burning and even if you do we would doubt you would notice and gee isn't it nice to have one built in to the unit?
As per HD swaps most people can store a massive amount on either the 2tb or 4tb unit. and yes that is an advantage with the Antipodes.
The reality is that once you go above 4tb you are going to be looking at a NAS drive anyway.
Thanks for the replies @davidten and hehaw. I do think the point that the source should be as 'accurate' as possible is well taken and has me contemplating further re: server choice. I am looking at some cable and preamp tests to get at the warmth vs neutral issue rather than the server at the moment. I am enjoying hearing everyone's feedback on these top servers and hope it continues.
Hmm... well you don't have one piece with the statement you have 2 pieces and 2 external power cords attaching on the right and left sides. Plus a power cord. I do find the design a little strange... but that's just me.
Just my opinion I own a WA 33 woo audio amplifier and they put the power cords in through the middle. No external cords don't know if there was a reason Innuos didn't do that. Maybe flexibility? Power box can be put farther away from the player portion with longer cables. Again though you do risk noise when you do that...
I also prefer a burner outside the music units. Unsure of the noise factor with having it internal... doesn't really affect me; as I do have an Zenith MK2 unit I can burn cd's to.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is storage. Your basically stuck with the statement... Antipodes you can swap out drives and increase on the fly.
@musicfx Thanks for detail, especially regarding the cables you tried with the Innuos Statement. Like you, in my system I prefer a ripped CD to the Innuos Statement hard drive over Tidal streaming--but the streaming sounds mighty good. Statement's ease of use and reliability remain steady features of the product 4.5 months after purchase. During that period we have had numerous electrical storms. When this occurs, I shut down my entire system, and then reboot it when the storm is over. Not one problem so far. With past servers, these shut down/reboot events sometimes (not always) led to incomplete "handshakes" within the system requiring me to turn the non-Innuos server and/or the the internet router off and on several times to re-establish a reliable server/softwarer/router connection. Not a really big deal, but it has been nice not having to go through that routine with the Statement.
10 months ago I was trying to decide between the Antipodes CX+EX combo and the Innous Statement. It was taking forever for the Antipodes to become available. I ended up buying a The Memory Player. Sound was incredible but I found it difficult to use and I wanted to use ROON. I sold it and bought the Innous Statement and not the Antipodes CX+EC...which you would also have to buy a P-1 to add CD’s...plus 2 power cords VS. 1 with the Innous. They come close to the same price when done. The Innous Statement looks much better in a high end system, especially in silver. I found the Innous easier to use. After just over 2 months of listening to the Innous I am glad of my decision. I have tried a few different cables, AQ Diamond USB, Transparent Ethernet, Vetere...& WireWorld Platinum Ethernet & USB among a few others. I kept both WireWorld Platinums in my system. USB sounds better than Ethernet from the Statement to my DAC (T+A MP 3100HV). CD’s ripped to the Innous hard drive sound the best, but streaming QoBuz & Tidal sounds crazy good also, as do hi Rez files on the Innous. I recently finally got the hear the Antipodes CX +EX combo and it sounded really good. It was with even more expensive cabling than mine, higher end amplification and speakers (not as good as mine). I personally preferred the Innous Statement sound slightly more. Sound with both is fantastic, but the ease of use, less pieces, much better looks and reliable operation of the Innous Statement reassures me I made the right decision.
Roughly speaking, if I could ask your advice, which of these ’higher-end’ servers would you recommend that could add ’warmth’ or ’richness’ to a neutral/slightly cool pretty highly resolved system?
This is something I have also been processing and thinking through and struggling with myself. Hopefully others will offer their perspectives on the matter.
My current system has a ’sound’ that is a net synergy of it’s parts. I am becoming more and more cautious with change, given it’s current configuration and sound. As a result, I’m struggling with which ’sound signature’ to choose when it comes to my future server/player choice.
Counter to this is my position (belief) that a source needs to be as pure / accurate as possible (since it stands at the front of the system) with fine tuning applied downstream, if and when necessary.
For example, I was able to ’evaluate’ the dCS Rossini for a second time yesterday and I’m starting to get a feel for it’s contribution to system sound. I’ll be evaluating it once more, but I now have a growing feeling that it may not be an ideal fit within my current system, despite it being an exceptional DAC.
@astewart8944 Thank you so much for your thorough and detailed response and the reasoning that led to your final choice in the Innuos Statement. Your post was very helpful. And thanks also for taking the time to do so.
I didn’t know it was his review. Thought you were talking about someone else... I’ve already referenced his review in one of my posts; so thought it was someone else... that's the problem with reviewers. Everything is always the best
OK, but I don't understand why you would be certain that CP never in fact heard the CX+EX combo if you in fact had already read his review. CP basically raves about the combo: as you now note. Even in the Pink Faun review, which he concludes is the finest server he has heard and then adopts it as his new reference, he still has great things to say about the Antipodes combo. I simply found your assault on his response to my question overly harsh given that CP is overall an Antipodes fan. (As am I BTW.)
I get that you don't agree with his assessment. Nothing wrong with that at all. But postulating that you were pretty certain CP never actually heard the combo seems a bridge to far.
I already posted those links in one of my responses and his final conclusion is as per below. So I agree with that but saying the dx3 gets you almost to the cx/ex combo is inaccurate. Even the sound signature is different on the new units ; smoother etc..
There comes a time when a reviewer just lacks the superlatives to describe the latest experience and for me, this is it. How do I describe the CX+EX delivery if I have already used all the superlatives that I can think of for earlier reviews? This combination is, quite simply, the very best digital front end that I have heard.
Thanks for posting the links and flagging your comment to CP @astewart8944. And @david_ten for the additional server ideas. Really helpful to read the above and the reviews. Roughly speaking, if I could ask your advice, which of these 'higher-end' servers would you recommend that could add 'warmth' or 'richness' to a neutral/slightly cool pretty highly resolved system? I currently run the Melco N1/ZH through Simaudio DAC, pre and amp to Hailey 2.2s.... Any insights would be greatly appreciated, but I understand if there are simply too many variables at play to put forth a rec. I too wish CP would get the chance to review the Statement.....
@hehaw77 Since you asked me to provide the links to CP's Antipodes CX+EX combo review (it is a three part review) you can find them below. The CP response to my April 2019 question, which I copied above, is from the comment section CP's Pink Faun review (which is a three part review as well) and is also found on CP's website:
@hehaw77 Could you please comment on the speed of the CX + EX combo running Roon? I currently run a DX2 as both core and renderer for Roon, and I find it awfully slow in navigating. (Example: Discover can take a full minute to provide an output. I only have about 2,500 CD’s ripped. Searching for an artist can take it 30 seconds. I am not that patient I’m afraid.)
How fast does it perform for you? As it is with the DX2 I am reluctant to buy a lifetime of Roon.
"Since you already own the DX3, you already have a significant
portion of the CX+EX sound and I’m not sure if upgrading to CX+EX would
yield enough to make this change worthwhile." I'd have to see this favorable review for myself; as the DX3 is good but just ok sub par compared to the combo and he EX alone is better.
@hehaw77 You may want to read CP's Antipodes CX+EX review. CP has listened to many Antipodes' products. He has one of the most favorable reviews of the CX+EX combo on the internet. You can see his enthusiasm for the Antipodes CX+EX combo in his response to me: "...although successive reviews of
other DACs and streaming endpoints do seem to sustain my preference for
the deeper, more 3D sound of the Antipodes combo." I'm pretty sure that before buying the Pink Faun his reference server was the Antipodes CX+EX combo.
Once you read his Antipodes CX+EX review then you can more fully determine whether he never really listened to the combination and just made the whole lengthy review up. Because if you are correct, then CP spent a lot of time telling people how great the combo sounds to his ears when he never actually heard the combo--even though he has pictures that show it sitting in his system.
Of course I’ll comment on the below. The EX alone sounds better than the DX3 ; the CX alone sounds better. DX3 is old tech even if its been upgraded. It’s been noted already that the combo sounds much better. Than each unit on its own. Others have also commented that comparing the DX3 to other servers is not a correct comparison. I Really don’t know what more can be said if people want to believe something regardless of facts. I’d venture to say this person has not listened to the combo. Almost positive of that..in fact anyone agreeing with that statement I’d ask if they have heard the combo. If you have then prefer something else fair enough; as I’ve heard both and prefer the combo over anything I’ve heard to date. I can also say the MK2 with my clocks give me a significant portion of the Innuos Statement sound; which is somewhat correct, and upgrading to the Innuos Statement wouldn’t give me significant up-gradable experience. Which is somewhat true; but I’d be comparing old tech to Innuos top of line.
Quote: "Since you already own the DX3, you already have a significant portion of the CX+EX sound and I’m not sure if upgrading to CX+EX would yield enough to make this change worthwhile."
@david_ten It is probably is worth noting that I have listened to the Innuos Statement with the Aqua Formula xHD DAC, however, not in my listening room. The speakers were YGA Hailey 2.2s, which I am fond of--but do not own. I liked the presentation--although I thought the overall sound profile needed to be "warmer."
I think CP describes Rowland gear's sound profile very accurately. And I think his Antipodes description is accurate (that should make @hehaw77--very happy :-)). In my system, I think the Innuos Statement is actually providing greater transparency than the Antipodes DX3--which I noted in my review. When CP said that the DX3 is providing much of (but not all of) the CX+EX combo, I'm fairly certain he is correct. As others have noted, the Innuos Mk3 with the Phoenix re-clocker is chasing the Statement sound. BTW I have heard the Mk3 with the re-clocker--it is very good. I personally don't think it is 95% of the Statement's SQ having now listened to the Statement for many hours. But, I do think it is a very high value proposition. I read everything on the internet about Pink Faun before I pulled the trigger on the Innuos Statement. At that time, I couldn't find a Pink Faun US distributor (that has since been rectified) and the Pink Faun website was consistently down. Not simply down overnight. I mean down for what seemed like a long time. That puzzled me because, let's face it, a music server, is, well, a computer built to specifically handle music. It seemed to me that a company building computers should be fanatical about whether or not the server housing their website was operational. It made me question Pink Faun's operational capabilities to service their brand in the U.S. I confess that might not be a totally fair assessment. But at the time, I was shopping for a new server for a significant amount of hard earned money and the details began to matter a great deal. Hope this helps as you shop for a server.
@david_ten and others: In order to try and answer the question posted above, I thought it would be helpful to first set out Christiaan Punter's (CP) full response to a question I asked him back in April 2019--it follows here (I will then post separately my "take away" regarding CP's response):
"Musicality remains a relative term and a dangerous one to use.
What sounds musical to me may not do so to you. Either way, indeed, in
terms of audiophile performance, the Pink Faun is the best I have heard.
Since you already own the DX3, you already have a significant portion
of the CX+EX sound and I’m not sure if upgrading to CX+EX would yield
enough to make this change worthwhile. More importantly, since you use
the Joseph Audio Pearl 3s (very nice speakers btw), the balance on your
end will work out differently than on my side with the Wilsons that I
used for this review. It’s always a matter of balance and in my case,
the Wilsons need some warming up. The Josephs may not need this, unless
that is how you like it. Now that I have Kroma Audio Carmen, I think the
conclusion might be a little different for me as well, with more love
for the Pink Faun’s extreme transparency, although successive reviews of
other DACs and streaming endpoints do seem to sustain my preference for
the deeper, more 3D sound of the Antipodes combo. Your 925’s are pretty
neutral but the Joseph speakers are on the full and warm side, as is
the Aeris. The Corus+PSU is very transparent but it’s a Rowland, so it
is still a little sweet. Less so with the PSU, btw. But by changing the
Aeris for the Aqua Formula xHD you will gain a lot of neutrality and
transparency and lose some of that Aeris smoothness. The net effect
would be a more transparent, cleaner, even more hi-res sound. If you’d
then swap the DX3 for the Pink Faun, the sound will head more in that
direction but I think you might be amazed at the extra resolution and
refinement. Now, I think your system can certainly make the best of that
combination but the question is if you want to retain the current
balance or are happy to have it more more toward neutrality. In
conclusion, looking at your two proposed solutions, I’d do neither and
would first audition the Aqua. If you like it then proceed to trying the
Pink Faun. Alternatively, you could also move straight to the Pink Faun
as the Aeris+PSU is still very good as well, just a little too sweet
for my current taste but that aspect may actually combine very well with
the Pink Faun’s extra neutrality. In conclusion, I tend to prefer
multibit R2R DACs (Wadia, CH, Aqua Formula xHD) over Delta/Sigma (Aeris
and the large majority of current DACs) because the latter nearly always
sound somewhat restrained and/or filtered to me. But I know that
opinions vary on this subject so I’d suggest investigating that aspect
for yourself. Also, there are deviations, the PS Audio PWD MKII for
example, is a Delta/Sigma design but sounds almost like a Wadia, not
restrained or filtered at all. But now I’m starting to ramble… Let me
know how you get on. Happy to answer follow up questions."
@astewart8944 Al, I have read the review. But I had not read the comments. Thank you for pointing me to them. They are informative as well.
In many ways those conversations align with @audiotroy 's here in terms of his position that each server (he discusses/carries) has a "particular sound" and needs to be chosen in context of one's system and priorities.
Are you open to offering your 'take-away(s)' on the Pink Faun units / Christiaan Punter's response to you and others? Thanks.
As an aside, Sound Galleries and Baetis were mentioned earlier in this thread, which is why I did not list them.
@david_ten Hopefully you have read this review of the Pink Faun server:https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/music-server-reviews/pink-faun-2-16x-1-3/ I have only linked to the first part of the three part review. I highly recommend you read the comments as well. I asked the reviewer a question about the Pink Faun before I bought the Innuos Statement. I found his answer insightful.
I will be ecstatic if the Phoenix brings the Zenith to near the performance level of the Statement. If so, it will be a bargain, if anything in HiFi can really be a bargain anymore.
The Phoenix was released at RMAF, in the US market. It won't be released in the UK until a HiFi show at the end of October.
I also heard the Innuos demo at RMAF. I concur with your praise of the Zenith Mk3 paired with the Phoenix re-clocker. To my ears it was 95% of the Statement's SQ for a lot less money.
@astewart8944 Checking with you as you are the OP and because this thread is Innuos and Statement specific...Are you open to discussion of other 'upper tier' servers within your thread or would it be better to start a 'generic' server specific thread? Thanks.
Thanks @david_ten and @astewart8944 I appreciate the replies. I've been tracking the Statement and Taiko Extreme threads over at WBF for awhile and know one user managed to get both servers in the same room. Was hoping someone on Agon had the opportunity to A/B them directly in the same system... or the Statement vs. a top of the line Melco. I currently have the Melco N1ZH running into the Simaudio 780d v2 and am looking to upgrade the server. Will keep my eye out for any further reviews. Thanks again for starting this thread!
Thanks for stepping in...I have been following this thread closely and enjoyed reading all posts except last few posts by hehaw/troy. I had a chance to listen Statement and Zenith MK3 with Phoenix USB reclocker at RMAF 2019. The MK3 w/USB reclocker sounded very rich and emotionally engaging. And rightfully, earned my respect.
I am not quite sold on the Statement at $15K price point. Maybe a in-home audition will sway my decision to consider Statement over W20SE....LOL!!!
@audiotroy @hehaw77 Gentlemen, please give it a rest. Hehaw prefers the Antipodes CX+EX combo and has his reasons. Duly noted. Audiotroy highly recommends people try the Innuos Statement and has his reasons. Duly noted. Now please stop with the back and forth on this thread. Y'all are turning what should be a pleasant informative thread into a tiresome personal grudge match. If you want to go after each other, please do that by using PM. And audiotroy please don't weigh in with your last word on the subject; simply honor this request. I didn't start the thread for people to snark at one other.
So your bias comes out... clearly.. difference here is I AM NOT A SALES PERSON so I don't have to justify anything.
It's obvious you HAVE NOT read the all the audiophile sites or you wouldn't be perplexed to how Antipodes eliminates noise.
The statement is not cheap and I think its overpriced and needs justification. It's more expensive than the CX/EX combo (which is better)
Hottest does not mean best. Bugatti cars are rare purchases and many other high quality products but they are not "hot" items.
Perhaps I need to say it again... "do your own research" you have access to the same people I do.. get your own white paper...
Who said software? It's done at the board level. You know the difference right?
Innuos uses... lol.... its more of a V8 Chevy approach compared to a finely tuned Aston Martin Innuos as I said before is good its ok I own an innuos server... but the sophistication and preparation on the Antipodes imho is better.
Trajectory? lol... they have been around for a long time. So we are clear they are having a hard time keeping up with demand.... You will find these servers in audiophile homes; not Joe and Bob's living room where you might find an Innuos. Nothing wrong with that... but the target audience is NOT the same.
No of course you don't because you sell Innuos products that's why you don't see a difference is separating Core and renderer.
But even Roon itself will tell you its beneficial as I stated above and again was ignored..... ..... any audiophile with experience will tell you its beneficial...
As for ethernet... that's addressed above... perhaps a re-read will help
Hehhaw, no you missed our points entirely and we have read all the Antipodes website, please point to their "white paper" on their noise reduction techniques we would love to read it.
The elimination of "noise via digital manupulation of software is not the same thing or by splitting up tasks your "bandwidth" concept on the motherboard seems to make sense to us compared to designing a sophisticated, very stable state of the art and very quiet power supply design, coupled to a state of the art Ethernet and USB reclocker, instead it is a way for you to justify the high cost of the Antipodes which in terms of design and build quality we see as lacking somewhat to the all out approach that Innuous uses.
Also Nuno has tested al lot of different techniques to make one of the worlds best servers and there is not a lot that they haven’t looked at.
As per noise, again any external ethernet connection with or without an SOTM filter is an additional pathway to gain noise, and requires another cable, we do not see any advantages of seperating the the Roon Core vs the Renderer.
Hewhaw, glad you love your Antipodes, many people are finding the Statement to be the best overall server on the market.
Lets see the trajectory of the two companies in a few years, Innuous is the hotest server maker in the industry, wonder why?
@audiotroy you have not done your research... and you should before you make statements. I would not comment on the other products you have listed except the statement because I understand what Innuos has done ; but the others I could not comment on
I eluded to what Antipodes does to eliminate noise before but if your honest its just easier for you to sell the other products you have.
In regards to the combination CX/EX that is easily resolved via cat7 sotm cables as I've discussed before but seems you "missed" it for convenience. Since you are "not" a music server designer its obvious you are not.. why would you understand what Antipodes does...
Go to the roon boards and they also recommend you separate the server and renderer. The Statement has weaknesses in running two external power lines outside into the main box above? ... they perhaps should consult Mark Jenkins on how to build a noise free power supply.... Also running both server and renderer together is also another weakness.
To make it clear to the rest... I think the statement sounds very nice... and am familiar with the "basic" tech Nuno and team use for noise reduction. The Antipodes way of reducing nose in my opinion is better and way more fascinating to me.
I told you previously they offset various frequencies on their boards to eliminate noise ; and you said that you didn't think it was anything out of the ordinary. Which tells me you do not know this product at all.
Here's a small piece and I suggest you do your research for the other pieces unless you feel you need to be spoon fed.
Below is the education you need to sell Antipodes servers which in my opinion are better than what you have listed. If i was your boss I'd tell you to be more learned on products you refer to.
The below is just for their power supplies; this is also for their older generation power supply their new ones are even better.
The key thing is that all regulated power supplies generate switch noise, and that with digital it is really important to not only reduce that noise, but through design, put the residual noise in a frequency range that does not interfere with the digital signal. This not only involves the regulation used, but also how the transformer is wound and how it is screened – for example our transformer is completely copper screened.
Mark Jenkins: “The motherboards are sourced from the world’s best supplier and they cost around 6 times what some of the competitors are using. We tune the motherboards to shift the frequency peaks of the noise generated by each component in order to eliminate noise nodes, so the mainboards start as an off-the-shelf board and then are customized for our use.”
Antipodes also places a lot of emphasis on the quality of the power supply, which they manufacture entirely in-house.
Mark Jenkins: “What we did with the new power supply was to test the injection of noise into the motherboard at various frequencies to see which frequencies did the least damage to the sound quality, and then we designed the power supply board in such a way that the noise component was in the benign frequencies. This has a similar effect as a zero noise power supply.”
As mentioned, the EX and CX have two Ethernet ports. One can be used to connect to the network and the second to provide a low-noise dedicated feed to an Ethernet DAC. According to the info in the manual, “Ethernet can introduce high levels of noise into the receiving device. The Direct Ethernet solution in Antipodes servers minimizes network ‘chatter’ on the link and creates a high bandwidth, phase accurate, low-noise direct link between the server and renderer. This provides a dramatic improvement over connecting your server and renderer devices through a noisy switch or over a long length of network cable”.
I’ve put this to the test and indeed, the direct connection sounds considerably cleaner as well as freer than a connection via the existing network. BTW I also conducted a similar test using multiple network switches and network cables in a range of lengths with surprising results, using Meridian Sooloos components, the predecessors or Roon, so to speak.
There is a very helpful discussion on servers on What's Best Forum. I highly recommend it to those who want some different perspectives on various servers. There you will find the Taiko SGM Extreme is discussed extensively and compared in listening tests to different servers, including the Innuos Statement. There is not much of a discussion there about the Antipodes EX+CX combination. Don't take that as a knock on Antipodes products; they simply aren't part of the conversation on WBF.
We have right now in the shop three of the top computer music servers:
1: The Innuous Statement
2: The Baetis Reference
3: The Laufer Technik Memory Player
The Baetis isn't the current version as Baetis has made some improvements, the Laufer is nearly current with a bit of software upgrades would be completely current.
In our findings the three or four best are in no particular order
Innuous Statement, Taiko, Laufer Memory Player Antipodes
In terms of the Antipodes vs the Statement, aside from Hewhaw, we have a lot of difficulty understanding what Antiopdes is doing via hardware, ( the open shots of the chassis shows a nicely designed and built product but where are the normal parts of the super server secret sauce which are massive custom power supplies with extensive regulation, hardware reclocking and noise reduction assemblies, and we don't see an advantage of seperating the renderer from the Roon core, which should acutally genearte more noise as you are transmitting from the Core over ethernet to the renderer even if the two boxes are in the same rack that is one more external connection versus a much shorter internal connection. If you design your product carefully there should be no noise added by putting both pieces into one chasis.
The claim that Antipodes is doing something really unique in software is a dubious claim, as Laufer's piece has a patent on data manipulation to clean up the stored packets before transmission, and Innuous has built their own processing engine as well.
Which of these units sounds better to you will depend on the sonics that you prefer.
As per the Taiko it does seem extremely well built and well designed is it worth that much over the Antipodes, and the Innuous pieces that to me is a hard call.
We continue to explore these products as it is our belief that a good dac or a good dac/streamer with a server represents both the present and future of musical reproduction.
We have found that with the right dac, cabling and servers, high end digital can easily compete with the best of analog.
Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Computer Audio Specialists
email conversation I had with Antipodes...... one reason I feel its superior to the Statement (CX, EX combo unit)
Yes, but Mark Jenkins comments '....The clock is a lot less
relevant than people assume. The 3 things that matter with digital
audio are the clock used to generate the signal, noise levels and
bandwidth. The clock is less important than the other two. To my
knowledge Antipodes is the only firm that addresses bandwidth. The
others sacrifice bandwidth through use of noise filtering. We use
no filtering at all, leaving full bandwidth intact and achieve low
noise by designing it out from the ground up.'.
Regards,
Tony
Hi Tony.
Do your units have clocks?
Reason I'm asking is I have
the Sotm stack.. eg usbultra and work clock @ 10Mhz
I've tried your EX unit with
the Sotm stack and it sounds better without it. Which is for
the most part ridiculous...
This should not be... the
Sotm stack definitely helps the Innuos unit sound better...
but yours sounds better without it.
Whatever you guys are doing
there is awesome..
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