And here is the Audiobeatnik, one of audio’s most respected reviewers. In particular take note of InnuOS’s statement on clocking:
|
@nigeltheflash
I am sorry but you are being argumentative: on your logic the clock in the device is superfluous yet InnuOS expressly extoll its importance and the attached review of the device amply speaks to its sonic benefits. The same applies to Uptone‘s Etherregen so I am frankly not interested in further reiterations of your postulate. Over and out.
|
Let‘s just say that my ears and reputable designers like Innuos, Esoteric et al disagree with you
|
I think that minimising jitter throughout the digital chain rather than just at the A/D conversion stage has primary importance. Buffering is not a recipe for avoiding jitter. And it‘s the quality of the clock more than the length of the cables that matters
|
@kijanki
What about the clock accuracy releasing the buffer, then?
|
In my setup both the Etherregen on Ethernet and the UIP on USB can run on their own clocks or supported by the 10m clock. The difference in sound quality isn‘t subtle and that is what my post was about. It seems you are arguing from first principles rather than own experience
|
@kijanki
You are not addressing my point on processor loading. Or who else is cleaning up the mess?
|
Releasing a dirty stream to the D/A increases its processing load leading to distortion. This applies to all dacs but is particularly noxious when using upsampling. That‘s why reclocking the data before conversion has benefits. And by the way, excessive buffering leads to latency while underutilized buffers need empty packets fill-in, again increasing the processing requirement on the D/A converter. Be that as it may and as stated previously: in my setup the benefits of external master clocks is easily demonstrable
|
So where is error correction happening if not at the D/A processor?
|
I‘d really appreciate if someone would comment on this thread from personal experience rather than from however acquired first principles.
|
And by the way: your sophisticated views would obviate the setups of any major recording studio where clocking of multiple devices with very long cables is standard practice
|
A good clock is between $5k-15k. What Dacs are you talking about?
|
DCS is offering an external clock for their top of the line stack as well
|
@erik_squires
for avoiding misunderstandings: In my case Dac, Etherregen and USB reclocker are all synchronised to the same Antelope 10m clock. When using AES or SP/DIF the DAC needs to rely on the incoming embedded clock signal whereas USB asychronous slaves the server‘s clock, so effectively my server is equally synchronised to the 10m clock.
|
@nigeltheflash
Apologies I was meaning to refer to the offline mode under system advanced settings
|
@lalitk
👍 I guesa it’s ever been thus…
|
@greg_f
no harm done, I just wonder why people advocate S/PDif or AES EBU connections which depend on the server‘s clock which is often the weakest link when all the new chip set development has gone into asynchronous USB which slaves the server‘s clock thus obviating the problem….
|
It shows that the ethernet is a major source of DAC disturbances and some believe that clocking matters in that context.
|
I can only reiterate what I hear: Etherregen with and without external clock are miles apart. So something happens ahead of the streamer that is affected by the clock. Interestingly John Swenson acknowledge the beneficial effect in his white paper, too.
|
@nigeltheflash
I stand by what I hear and am not impressed: why would InnuOS include an expensive Ocxo clock if it has no benefit? And reclocking the Etherregen is very audible. so what is your equipment and reference base for making all your statements?
|
@nigeltheflash
This is why InnuOS has a standalone feature in Sense 2.6.3
|
@nigeltheflash
err:no, there is no streaming in offline mode and the sound improvement on local files is distinctly audible
|
@nigeltheflash
You got a Pulse using Sense: pls try it out. Why else would InnuOS provide the feature
|
@lalitk
Fully agreed. InnuOS does though offer a feature for playing local files while isolating the ethernet connection, the so called offline mode under Sense. It would be interesting to know whether disconnecting the ethernet cable from your Auralic equally improves the sound when playing local files.
|
@lalitk
Ok, got it. And yes, disconnecting outright doesn’t work; hence the offline feature in Sense
|
@nigeltheflash
From the InnuOS website on Phoenix Net: ‘The PhoenixNET is the realization of Innuos' philosophy of simplicity and signal purity applied to the network switch. Having started with improvements to the Ethernet ports' clock on our flagship Statement, Innuos has now brought the concept to a network switch design that focuses exclusively on audio use for musical details that stand out, a blacker background, better instrument separation and realism.’
Sounds very much like InnuOS thinks the clock on the Ethernet port matters, doesn’t it?
|
@nigeltheflash
may I suggest you read John Swenson‘s white paper on the Etherregen.,It is available on thhe uptoneaudio.com website. There is also an addendum on using external 10m clocks
|
@nigeltheflash
while you are entitled to your views the fact remains that reclocking the Etherregen has an easily demonstrable effect. John Swenson in opposition to you acknowledges that. And Reiki Audio‘s point that manufacturers include expensive Ocxo clocks in switches ‘because they have easy access to them’ defeats normal commercial logic.
|
‘I fully accept that an external clock might improve sound quality. I don’t accept that the reason for this has anything to do with the accuracy of the clock. That’s all.’
Congratulations on inventing a negative inverse tautology’
|
@greg_f
You are introducing the relative benefit of different types of clocks which has no direct relation to the topic discussed.
|
