@tvad I’m not sure there will be a one-size solution to the dilemma. I’m ok with that. The point of such dilemmas is to elicit additional ideas and sub-principles which can help.
When you say that you would pay $3500 to the dealer IF that $3500 represented a discount (in response to the lower price $3000), you’ve articulated a "best practice" as you understand it in the customer-dealer relationship. I hadn’t thought of that!
It reminds me of shopping for carpets in Turkey. If you didn’t haggle or even make a move to walk out, you’d get no respect from them. They wanted to haggle — it was part of the relationship-expectation. Would they like it if an idiot tourist paid full price? Sure. But the norm of haggling fulfills something beyond the sheer quantitative goal of the business relationship. In our culture, haggling is very awkward and sometimes completely inappropriate. It’s hard to know when that is, especially in business like high-end audio, where there’s an expectation that rich people are buying the stuff and they’ll pay whatever it costs.
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@tvad Attending audio show goes around the dilemma, for sure. It solves the problem of "how can I hear things outside the context of my local shop" but it doesn’t choose within a dilemma I posed. Regarding the idea of mentioning the online price to the dealer, I tried to build that in: "I ask the store for a better deal, and they cannot get close to the online price point." The question becomes, for example, "Are you going to pay $3500 rather than $3000 for that amp in the store because that’s the best the store can do — given their overhead, salaries, etc." I’m all for finding ways around a dilemma, but what if the dilemma is truly unavoidable? Part of the question becomes very subjective at this point. You might think that paying an additional 15% above online prices is a fair cost to absorb, given what the dealer does and can do. Others might set their margin lower. I don’t know a principled way to deal with those differences. @twoleftears If there aren’t local stores, I cannot see a dilemma. |
@thosb I like that story, and clearly the owner is creating a relationship with you. That’s good for his long strategy, as long as folks like you -- once they acquire the means -- are going to come back and spend a bit more with that store.
For me, here’s a tough case:
Let’s say a store nearby gives me a chance to audition two speakers:
Pricey A & Affordable B.
I like them both, but I like A more than B.
If I go online and buy direct or used, I can afford Pricey A. Otherwise, I can only afford B.
I ask the store for a better deal, and they cannot get close to the online price point.
If I buy A online, I get the preferred speaker. If I buy B in store, I get a speaker I still really like.
If I buy A, I do not support the store. If I buy B, I do support the store.
Without the store to audition these, I’d never even know what they sound like, that I like either, or which I prefer.
Also, without the store, I have no one local to stand behind the product if there are issues.
It’s a hard call for me, because a lot of this audio journey is to find the best sound for my ears. Clearly, purchasing a speaker I like less to support the store feels like I’m not doing it right. And yet, without that store, I’d not know anything about either speaker. That tilts me back toward a more holistic appraisal -- it’s about supporting more than my individual preference, but the conditions which make that preference possible. (In this sense, it’s like vaccines; no one likes to get a shot, but herd immunity doesn’t come about if enough people opt out.)
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There sure is. Big worries don't eliminate smaller worries, though. The fact that people are commenting here proves that they see something is at stake. Anyone who thinks this is a trivial issue is free to ignore it. |
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oddiofyl I like your approach, on all levels; especially where you do your best to buy locally but will buy online, too, if there's something unique and a bargain.
Andrew Robinson did a youtube video where he articulated what one pays for when they buy something made in a country where the workers are well paid and have healthcare, as opposed to products from countries which are paying exploitative wages and not supporting workers. That too resonated with me. One might wind up spending more but I know I appreciate my health care and decent wages, so the notion that I'm supporting others that way seems important, especially for something as non-essential as an audio purchase.
Which shop in NH do you like?
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@zavato Good story. Sometimes the habits and manners of good customer service aren't passed down. I sometimes find myself bewildered with one local shop, thinking, "Didn't I just spend $5k with you? Doesn't that mean enough for you to answer my email?" |
+1 @tvad
+1 @lalitk It's up to legislators and lawyers to make the tax law. That said, if one's own state has a lack of funds for roads, schools, etc. then that does make me think twice about sucking it up and paying the taxes -- especially on a discretionary purchase. This depends, of course, on what I think happens to my tax money once it's collected. |
Thanks @sgordon1 and @jond and @big_greg
All "should" issues will revolve around "personal preferences" only if one determines that there is no ethical dimension to the question. If that’s what you think, then it may be that any option is acceptable to you.
In my own thinking out of these options, I presumed that because brick and mortar shops are in fact valued by many people (customers, owners, manufacturers) then something of value is at stake. That is why an ethical dimension is opened up. The resolution of questions arising within that dimension could go various ways, but something more than personal preference would be involved. But maybe the answers generated here will show whether there even *is* an ethical dimension. I could have that wrong.
I’ll also admit to having a great time surfing for stuff. It’s just so important (to me) to be able to hear something. And what do I owe the dealer for making that possible? That’s where my question started. I’m not sure where it ends — I’m really not.
@big_greg It seems like you’ve found a way to work out various options — you’re supporting different shops in the ways you find commensurate with what they can provide you. And you owe it to yourself to not throw your money away — which is, in the end, your time and sweat. I will note one thing that ran through everything you said — no matter how much your hard-earned money is worth, you didn’t say you audition in person and then do all your buying for the lowest price, online.
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@gadios great list of do's and don'ts. Thanks a bunch.
@millercarbon: wonderful post. I especially love this paragraph:
"Don't abuse it. Do have the guy earn his money. Do ask to swap speakers or cables or whatever in order to compare. Do ask to home audition. But don't waste their time. Do it when you're serious about buying. Then if you go through these steps, home audition and all, don't be looking to shave the last few dollars. Just buy it. He earned it. You saved a ton. Because having done all this you know what you're getting. Internet prices are low and should be because until and unless you've heard it, its a crapshoot. Don't kid yourself. Price is only part of what you pay. There's also time and money wasted when what you bought sight unheard winds up getting traded."
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+1 Almarg: "I strongly prefer to give my money to manufacturers who have established top-notch reputations for responsiveness to and supportiveness of owners and potential owners of their products. Even when I don’t foresee a need to ever call upon a manufacturer for support or even with questions, I simply prefer to give my money to that kind of company."
All I can add is that sometimes a company is so new (e.g. the Billie amp) that they don't even have a track record. That's also problematic; of course, everyone has to start somewhere.
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