Folks can say what they want about bi wiring, but Vandersteen designs all his speakers to be bi wired and they do sound better doing it. I trust my ears. I know what engineers may say, but again, the ears don't lie. There are plenty of things that can't always be explained in audio and that could be because we don't have the measurements for them yet.
Since Richard has no skin in the wire business, there is no way he'd espouse this if it didn't make a difference for the positive in his speakers.
I've also heard them bi amp'd. Once in a store, I didn't like it. He used less than stellar amps doing this. Another time when I heard at a friends house, it sounded the best I've heard the Treo's sound. He was using all Audio Research amps and I think keeping in the same company made the world of difference. JMHO
For for those engineers who dispute what I am hearing, the fact is that you can't because you aren't in my head, lol. All of audio is subjective. The first time I heard bi wiring of the Vandersteen's, I had no idea that he was changing anything in the system. I was listening to a track and then he took a few minutes and unhooked the second run, but I didn't know it. It was pretty easy to tell which was which. I know many who feel the same way and some, who have never heard the Vandy's both ways, make statements about how they sound....even though they have never heard them. Just saying. |
I use an Ayre amp and DAC run only in balanced mode. I use Vandersteen Quatro's that are a semi active speaker (active subs built in). Richard has been at this as long as nearly any other designer and knows what he's doing. He measures, builds and listens. He takes into account everything a designer needs to.
I personally love the idea of a full y active system. That's the way a designer wants it to sound. Now if you don't like how it sounds, move on. My favorite system of all time, regardless of cost is the Vandersteen 7 mk2 with his own amp (speaker cable included as is the passive crossover that's built into the amp. The amp also has the DBS unit that Audioquest uses (Richard I believe is a co inventor) as well as the well received HRS systems vibration control system and to top it all off, his amp as well as the amps in the 7's has the Audioquest Niagara technology built in.
Folks don't often realize what's inside a speaker or amp etc... To me, it's a fully active system as it was designed that way. Add a pre and run a source into it and then add a top end pair of AQ balanced interconnect and you have a GREAT system, that's simple and sounds outstanding to most of us.
Everyone talks about synergy and often forget about it when assembling their systems.
Bi amp? if the speaker allows, it can sound so much better than not going it. I do feel strongly that you shouldn't go with two lesser amps as I've never heard system sound better with lesser electronics. Again, that's just me. Bi wire, as I said earlier, yes if it's designed that way as Vandersteen and some others are. It's all in the implementation. |
Imagine if you did it with two amps of the same make/sound. That's where the true magic is. I have heard a few speakers bi and even tri amped with NAD amps. Just takes some systems to a new level. As was stated above, no feedback messing with other drivers and each amp is freed up to only worry about a segment of the market if you would. Makes a huge difference, but in the US, most want so much control over their systems, they won't even look at semi or fully active speakers which is too bad. At least with fully active you hear them the way the designer built them and if you don't like them, move onto other's you do like. |
Kalali, You can go to the Ask Ricard part of their site and ask your question there. I have heard it set up this way with NAD amps as well as Belles amps and boy does it make a nice difference. You can really get a lot of high end sound out of those 2Ci's. I've heard them run with my Ayre AX5/20 integrated and it really showed off what they can do. There is a reason it's the best selling speaker of all time for the high end. Fanboy here, lol. |
dkzzzz, tone controls are one of those things that purists as you say, don't like. I agree with you and I know many designers who also do. That said, I've never heard digital EQ that didn't somehow change the sound of the spectrum elsewhere in the speaker. Many of you will disagree and that's fine, but I've heard a lot of digital EQ done with very high end system and or speakers that have it built in and I haven't felt the results were worth it as you help alleviate one problem, while cause another one.
I've heard a system using a parametric EQ that, to my ears, did a really good job, but you really have to know what you are doing when using one. Many of us love 70/80 rock and could really use a pre that offered it in somehow. Most of the recordings are really hot on top and they mess with the rest of the spectrum also. I have been in a few studios back in the day and saw engineers making tiny adjustments, but it was always riding a gain pot and it almost seemed that they wanted to justify their jobs and validate what they do, lol. Not taking shot's at the engineers, but we hear what we hear on the recordings and most will agree that they aren't usually the best sounding. Great music though and that's what it's about. |
Have you ever heard Vandersteen speakers (any of them from 2's up) played in both bi wired and then in non bi wired? I only bring them up, because I have done this many times with many of their speakers. There are plenty of other manufacturer's who you can say the same about. Some folks just put the option in as a marketing ploy, but many do design their speakers to be bi wired and there is solid engineering behind it. Just youtube some of the designers as they have addressed this often on panels at show's.
That's fine that you feel the way you do, but you may want to go listen before saying it's for the birds. lol. |
Yes, Vandersteen has a white paper. He was sharing at Audio Connections during one of his visits. I've spoken very recently with him about bi wiring and I can't share what he said, because I honestly don't remember it, lol. I do however remember his saying something about the powered speakers don't benefit quite as much as the non powered speakers. Something about the bass. I'll try to find out what I can when I'm able to.
It's a very interesting debate, but honestly, if a designer has designed their speakers to be bi wired and or bi amped, then I don't see how we can say they are wrong. The bi amping basically is to help with the bass control and that in turn will also free up the upper amp to deal with the speed and control of the mid and lower any problems you may have with dynamics. It would make sense that is what he's doing with using powered subs in the Quatro on up. I just switched from Treo to Quatro and it's not just the bass that is better (especially with the 11 band room eq), but everything is so much better. JMHO |
Pretty obvious that some folks like it one way and some the other. As Tomic posted above, the bass and can affect the HF, so it helps to separate them. I have heard my Quatro's wired both ways now as I had some Kimber around that allowed a true bi wire. I personally don't like the Kimber cables and that's why they were in my trunk. The point is that when bi wired, it was much better. The bass was tighter and the HF's were much more coherent. My wife agreed as did the rest of my family that was visiting. I don't think they will forgive me for subjecting them to this unscientific observation, lol....
|
