Makes sense. I owned the Cary V12R and the Carly SLI-80 both, and yes hat's how it sounds between UL / Triode switched modes over several years.
With those amps, Triode switched mode will have rounder top and bottom end. sounding softer. Ultralinear switch mode will be more dynamic and controlled, not lacking in top or bottom end.
While I listened mostly in Triode modes at first with both Cary stereo amps, I later compared to my current Quicksilver Mono 120 tube amps which are dedicated Ultralinear circuit design - there is more clarity and dynamics to it overall.
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@immatthewj "Again, with not intent of being argumentative, does this sound incorrect? (I was actually asking @decooney if he had rolled any tubes besides EL34s as I do have some 6550s for another amp,"
Sorry for the late reply this week. No, I did not, chose not to. I was sort of enamored with the Shuguang EL34BSTR (Ruby labeled) tube that Dennis chose for that amp at the time. Note I had two colleagues with V12Rs at the time, which offered the small [odd TV tube 12bz7] option up front, along with EL84s, and combined with those specific EL34 output tubes AND mixing in the later version Mundorf EVO Silver Gold (non oil) coupling caps was the ticket. Some guys went on to KT88s in the amps, and the tubes are too wide (imo) for that amp, sitting too close to each other. THIS is also why I’d stick with good EL34s, narrower tubes, more air spacing between the tubes. Good EL34s work in that amp.My local retired tech friend listened to the amp at his house and compared with different amps at the time. That combination of it all just worked well together. Sounded pretty amazing, actually. However he cautioned me about turning up the bias too much - and I did not. However as the V12R original manual recommended (280ma per side). Not good. Too hot. We got on the phone together with the designer that replaced Dennis at Cary later on. All of us agreed to run those tubes and to back the bias down a lot more. At the original manual spec, it just ran way too hot imo.
That tech [no longer there] told us the V12R factory original manual needed to be updated - Cary did not update it, new boss did not care - heads up. I was at 230 a side for a while [38.3ma per tube] and even the sound at 200ma per side kept the tubes sounding close, running cooler, and everything was still happy. Long story, be careful, those big transformers are very expensive to replace, and the R version had that large one in the back. Std V12 has the smaller transformer unit, both the same size, which might be easier to replace.Not sure if you run yours too hot, just beware.
My local tech friend was surprised by the sound of that amp I had - once upgraded, yet he got all over me about the wire maze in that unit, switching, modes. Kept pushing me to dedicated monos in UL or triodes. That V12R amp caused me to want to try two separate mono amps with KT120s/KT150s. 1/4 the output tubes, half the weight divided into two amps vs massive unit. Easier for amp rotation too. So, next I did the exact same cap and small tube rolling in the new mono amps with the idea of biasing the tubes [in the window] while keeping the main power transformers running a bit cooler, tubes running cooler - lasting longer too fwiw.
In summary: Does the new UL design mono amp setup have that same rolled off euphoric sound as those banks of EL34s, in the Triode switch position (no). Not the same. Is it a bit more clean sounding and more dynamic and extended, not rolled off, in a dedicated UL design mode with fewer tubes, (yes). Yes, you can run just two EL34s per side in that amp, if you can drive your speakers with lower power.
Even after using the exact same coupling caps [identical], It took me a while to adjust to my new mono UL amps. I too had been listening to that Triode switch mode for a long time. And, I agree with @atmasphere’s comments, UL is just quieter, cleaner, less distortion, offering something closer to your own renewed and updated realization about the sound in UL switch mode. Glad you tried it again.
I’ve stayed here [with self restraint so far, LOL] trying to avoid going with two larger dedicated 211 / 845 Triode amps. Btw, LOL I had that same B&K preamp, and three of the EX-4420 dual mono lush mosfet SS amps for a few decades before the various Cary tube and solid state amps by Cary. If you need the power for any reason, I will say the two separate beefy UL mono amps seem to drive and control my custom multi-driver speakers really well. They just light up and fill the room more easily. I think if I sold my existing mono UL tube amps I’d really kick myself later, fwiw. We all get the bug to try something else, yet keeping a few of the good ones around is nice too, if you have the space for it. Good fun. Enjoy.
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@immatthewj you were pretty close on your thoughts and memories of the Mesa Baron amp. Appears that amp delivers 150Wpc in full pentode mode, 120Wpc in 2/3 pentode, 85Wpc in 2/3 triode, and 60Wpc in full triode.
Ask: so, which of the switch modes did you enjoy most with the Mesa Baron amp?
And yes, Triode, UItralinear, Pentode (hybrid) and full Pentode will all sound and present differently. Note - your Cary V12 and SLA-70 amp experiences with each of their own circuit designs Dennis Had created will have their own signatures as well. You know, and have heard it for years. It’s fine to just stop there and enjoy it too!
Hey, give yourself some credit here - based on how you’ve reported things so far, I tend to think your hearing and ability to discern differences might be just fine. Here is the key - you are hearing the differences now, and hats off to you for that!
I remember after messing with different solid state mosfet based amps for 30+ years, searching for that same lush sound, I eventually expanded into tube amps in parallel. I had all of the same [renewed] questions you have right now about the differences in sound with different tube amps, circuit designs, switch modes, and related tubes for each. As I reflect back, wow, had a lot to learn and still do, trying different things as you are now. Note: I got help from a few local tech legends and mentors, sharing their gear & tubes. Both upgraded my former tube and SS amps.
Like you, and your V12, my modified V12R turned me into an EL34 tube geek. The Triode / UL switch gave an idea about both modes. And so did the SLI-80 with KT88s, which was an extension of your SLA-70, with the integrated front end and KT88s. Again, each of these amps and their own type of sound. Precise, maybe not, yet it might be a sound you prefer. I went through Cary, Inspire, and others trying it too. Worth every step along they way and appreciated every moment.
Welcome back to re-discovering circuits, designs, tubes and different applications through hearing the "differences". Probably the most important aspect to all of it imo.
If I may suggest, there might be a "next chapter" for you in your discovery, possibly moving to now try a (non-switchable) dedicated Ultralinear amp(s). Then trying a dedicated (non-strapped, true single ended) Triode amp with actual Triode tubes. You will hear all new difference yet again, in different ways, if you decide to try it in the future. Enjoy the renewed discovery and journey!
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@immatthewj Also, when I last experimented with backing the bias off, I was listening in triode, and triode was another of my preconceived notions that I turned out being open to rethinking.
Thanks for taking the time to replay, you always offer a lot of insight when answering my V12 questions.
Does your V12 still have the original Audio1 coupling caps installed in it?
Worth flipping it over when you remove the tubes, pull the cover and check. Installing really good caps in that amp brings it to another level of enjoyment.
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@immatthewj here are the 80510 units I put in the Cary V12R and Quicksilver Mono 120s. From the Partsconnexion site.
SKU: MUNDORF-80510
MSRP: USD $59.88
Unit of Measure: Each
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@immatthewj having dealt with both of these characters on amps, different tubes, options, I’ll say you are a bit on your own until you partner with a great local tech who can open up these amps and tell you what’s really going on inside of them.
I’m always leary of tube resellers who are likely trying to sell you what they have on hand or can get easily vs something they dont’ have on hand or need to order or cannot get so easily during different cycles of tube availability any given month of the year. Yes, and, Dennis did and still does "voice" his amps [in his own mind] trying different circuits, tubes, transformers, and more to achieve a different sound that he likes. Having owned various Cary Audio and Inspire by Dennis Had amps, all of them sounded different in triode, strapped triode, ultralinear modes too. And, my other ultralinear circuit mono tube amps sound different yet again from the former Cary and Inspire amps. Voicing, Marketing, whatever - back to listening to be the final judge of what you like and hear for your own system :) 
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@emergingsoul ... Audio manufacturers do an abysmal job explaining what their products do. It’s a mystery box and you really have to dig in to figure it out. ...
Ultra linear is a sexy term used by the manufacturer. Cary has not done a very good job to explain it on their website. ...
What you are not aware of and dont seem to understand is these amp circuits and designs were intentionally kept secret, undocumented, not openly shared by the original owner, founder, designer - so others dont try to cheat, steal, copy them.
For your awareness, its done this way on purpose. As you research more, you’ll learn more about what these circuits of strapped triode, ultralinear, actually represent beyond the uninformed nonsensical marketing jargon you are trying to make it out to be. When you own and use one of these amps, you'll understand more that its not just marketing. They truly can sound different, and people pay up for them just to own one.
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Seems the self-inflicted-comical poster sees the initial post heading, reads little in between, goes straight to the end, and just starts replying with whatever comes to mind to get folks stirred up.
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@immatthewj to answer your questions, after I recapped with those specific caps, and tried different designs of silver-over copper and more pure copper interconnects between source/preamp, preamp/amp, in my case, and for my particular speakers it was a dead-on match for my taste and ears. Not to over think this too much - I simply enjoyed those particular EL34s at the time. I figured out who was making them for Ruby lable brand [at that time] and the sound is where I wanted it to be, for me. So, I did not change to different tubes, although I came close to trying the reissue Genelex KT77s regardless of what anyone says about them, and the only reason I did not do that is I wanted to try separate tube mono blocks with a dedicated ultralinear circuit, double the transformers and power caps instead - with my speakers. Someone really wanted to buy my V12R at the time, and I struggled with selling it. I sold it only to try the monos as an experiment to run with my speakers [trying different amps with my own custom speakers I build/built], to install the exact same caps, and even better Nichicon power caps, and compared from there. Everything was how I needed it on the V12R. Had I kept it, I might have tried KT77s, and once again, keeping bias down to 200-210 per side, max. Sound find, tubes last longer. btw, I’m trying new input tubes this weekend, on the monos to try and model one input tube set I had on the Cary V12R, trying to bring the sound of the new amps closer to what I had with the V12R prior. Just testing, trying, listening.
Oh, and No, I did not want to mess any more with the prior amp or the switchable circuit or trying to un-switch it, left it as is, it sounded great as-is, and decided to move to dedicated ultralinear mono amps. This has been yet another chapter of learning, upgrading, listening and has paid off nicely too fwiw.
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@dogearedaudio "...anyone with a technical understanding of tube amplifiers (and I’m barely on the periphery of that circle) will shudder at the idea of a "one-size-fits-all" amplifier. ;-)".
To your point, while you can run different output tubes in many of DH’s creations, stemming from his former life with Cary Audio, and recent times creating Inspire, like the early years of Cary V12, V12R, or SLA-70 @immatthewj is referencing periodically - his amps were/are designed and listened to with a very particular output tube in mind. in the case of the V12/R. It’s the classic EL34 tube, paired with particular transformers and input/driver tubes that make for an interesting blend an sound.
Today, If you splurge and buy one of Dennis’ small and more recent 300B amps, you buy it with the new re-issues WE300B tubes, and you pay a bit extra for it and that’s how the designer likes it and wants it to be. Only comes with these tubes.
Falling on my own sword, my existing mono amps were designed with specific power transformers and plate voltage (650v) and such to run TungSol KT150 output tubes in their optimum operating window. With my speakers, I enjoy both sets but also really like how KT120s sound in these amps. Go figure, lol. :)
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@dogearedaudio "Zero" feedback? Really? I’ve looked at the CAD-280SA V12 manual online and it doesn’t mention feedback, but perhaps that’s a different model. Hard to imagine they use NO feedback. Maybe not global feedback, which encompasses the output transformer. Internal feedback can be used to good effect, but no feedback at all is hard to imagine.
Re-checking my own prior Cary amps on this and there are several I can account for that followed Dennis’ vision for "absolute zero-feedback designs", and talk some here about "low- and zero-negative-feedback triode circuitry " and how it "tended to generate the sound he preferred—to his ears" unquote.
Some of the older Steroephile articles in the early to mid 2000s challenge and mention this too;
https://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/1098cary/index.html
On some search engines you can look for these words and hyphenated phrase +Cary +"zero-feedback" and different amps will pop up references this about some times.
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To @xenolith, agree, yes, you are fortunate to own those very unique and interesting big blue amplifiers from Gary and Charlie. I love one-off boutique custom builds like this with audio, cars, and motorcycles. Great story how they got finished. Very cool, and Thank You for sharing the info and photos. Happy listening.
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