I Don't Understand What Determines When A Thread Gets The Axe

@dill -- Good one.  Sorry our love of audio and animals "soured" on you.  See, I can make jokes too.  My topic has run it's course, so if Matthew and I want to indulge ourselves with our crazy Fur Kids and our audio gear, feel free to skip or opt out.

@deep_333 -- Sorry, but no tin foil conspiracy or massive sales collusion with kickbacks going on between myself and Verdant Audio. The REASON I tagged him was to make it easy for anyone wanting to see the thread and the comments that I mentioned in my post. At the time of my post (February 7th at 12:40 a.m.), you could still read the post @verdantaudio had made along with the 30 replies -- the post had not been deleted, the conversation had just been shut down. I have not tried to find the post as of this writing...so I don’t know if it has been deleted or not. Too answer your question -- no, the post wasn’t a situation of "him bad, me good". It was Verdant alerting us that two online "sellers" were listing products that they were not authorized to sell, and the advertising they were using online had been simply "cut and pasted" from Verdant’s website. I went to the websites of the two companies mentioned, and under their "Products" for sale menu, Verdant speakers aren’t even listed. However, if you do a Google search of the company name and Verdant, lo and behold links appear with product information, specs, and a fantastic "too good to be true" price and you can "purchase" the product with the click of a button. From replies in the comments section, bad things happen from that point forward. Hopefully that clears that up for you.

@cleeds -- I believe you have been on this Forum longer than I have, so I’ll take your word about the "even handed" Moderator actions. In my eyes, there just seems to be a lot of discussions shut down, deleted, etc., over the last 5 years and for the life of me, I couldn’t figure out why. I have actually asked the question, but never got an answer. Now do I spend hours on this site, searching for threads that have been deleted, and questioning the reason for every one?? Of course not. But I’m fairly certain that I’ve inquired 3 or 4 times ever since I became a Member -- especially during the Lockdown time frame. That was a stretch where I was seeing LONGTIME Members getting banned and having threads shut down right and left. A coorelation between "cabin fever" and short fuses? Absolutely.

@yogiboy -- "Thank you for your time. I hope you have a great day." (As he’s walking away, Columbo suddenly stops, turns and cocks his head to the side). "By the way, just one more thing..."

@erik_squires -- Sir, this is to inform you that you now owe me a brand new computer monitor. When I read your "I’m a frayed knot" punchline, I did an epic "spit take" and soaked my monitor in Guiness Stout. Since we are fellow music lovers, I’m not going to charge you for the cost of the Guiness...unless you leave me no alternative.

@8th-note -- My thoughts exactly. I was trying to find the original post by Verdant to back up what I said to @deep_333 above, but could not find it either. It does appear that it has gone from "Discussion Closed" to "Discussion Deleted", which is utterly ridiculous. There was absolutely NOTHING in his post that violated anything listed in the post from the Admin. Nothing. This reeks of shady.

@veerossi -- "Is this what the fuss is about?" Not in the least bit. Unfortunately, it appears that the Admin at Audigon has now deleted the post instead of just stopping the discussion, so you can't read it. I’m kicking myself for not doing a screen shot of the post, because I knew the Mod’s would delete it. I don’t know if he saved a copy, but, if you read the post above by @verdantaudio you can get a sense of the "Red Flag" warning -- and the original post also had replies from other Members with highlighted examples that raised the caution flags even higher up the flag pole.

@larry5729 -- I agree with you that Dealers should disclose that information when posting on this site either in their Username or at the end of each comment (their actual name, company name, address, etc.).

If you had seen this post before it was deleted, the Members who gave valuable information about these "Red Flag" online companies did just what you asked.  The original poster's username discloses he is with Verdant Audio, and a member who gave another detailed example of the unauthorized marketing and representation gave his complete name, company name, address, phone number, AND a list of the products represented.

EVERYTHING about the post appeared above board and as far as I could see, was intended as a public service to Members of Audiogon to hopefully keep a Member from losing thousands of dollars to a fraudulent foreign online entity.  Why the post would be shut down and deleted is freaking mind boggling to me, although there was one Member who repeatedly voiced objections to the post...even when every complaint was met with a response providing evidence that shot down the objection.  And the original poster wasn't the only one providing evidence.  As mentioned in the replies above, the shut down and deletion is eyebrow raising and makes one question the so called "Forum Discussion Rules".  I'm just glad I'm not the only Member who is puzzled.

@cleeds -- Thank you for explaining the details regarding how to contact the Admin on this site.  It is possible that the times I used the "Contact Us" feature, Audiogon's reply may have gone into my Spam Folder.  I am fairly religious about checking my personal email Spam and Junk Mail Folders (I owned a business for 30 years so I checked them several times a day which led to doing the same with my personal accounts), but anything is possible.  Again, thanks for the heads up.

We will just have to agree to disagree about the OP's language in his thread.  I thought he and the others that were familiar with these companies provided damning evidence to back up each claim and to answer each objection.  I saw the post as a Public Service Annoucement to "watch out".  I did some digging before I started this thread to make sure I did due diligence.  Do you not find it puzzling that the websites of the companies mentioned do not show Verdant Audio products in their drop-down menus...but if you do a web search that includes the name of the online company and Verdant Audio you get links where you can then purchase Verdant Audio products at prices THOUSANDS of dollars less than anywhere else?  According to Verdant Audio, at prices lower than his cost to import them.  The post by Robert Neill provided additional examples of the "F" word.

You may have noticed, I have not stated the names of the two companies in question and I'm trying to avoid spelling out the "F" word.  Hopefully that will keep my post from being shut down.  I did find a copy of the original post with all the replies and made screen shots of the entire thread.

@cleeds, you wrote:

The thread was also established to be a repository for future allegations of fraud. Those allegations of fraud create potential liability for A’gon, so the thread was properly deleted, imo.

Well, if that is the case, Audigon has a LOT OF WORK to do. Because when you do a Forum Discussion Search using the word "Fraud", you get 1,372 Thread Results going back to the year 2000. So much for Audiogon’s even-handed approach to enforcing its "Forum Discussion Rules".  I see actions like this all the time in ad revenue driven Forums -- somebody with skin in the game went to the Audiogon Moderators.  Considering the thread involved the possibility of losing several thousands of dollars to sham websites, the Mods decision stinks more than burning Caps that are overloaded.

Here are some older examples:

@tylermunns -- I think I agree with what you said. If I read it to say, "Be big boys and girls -- if there is something you don’t agree with, don’t go running to the Admins like a "Karen In Training" Little Johnny", I could not agree more. I have a copy of the post by @verdantaudio if you care to see it. Again, for the life of me I can’t understand what was said that warranted the "Discussion Being Shut Down" -- unless it was a complaint from a Member that has more pull than you or I. Every time a Member tried Option B, VerdantAudio and another Member provided evidence that shot down the Member’s complaint. I’m glad we got an update regarding the one online company that had a false storefront in the middle of "Bum(you know what) Kansas. It was actually comical. If you Goggle Earthed the address they had listed online, it was a rural farmhouse in the middle of Kansas off a two-lane road with absolutely NOTHING around for miles except for a grain silo and cows. No warehouse, no shipping building...exactly the type of location where $15,000 speakers would be stored and shipped from 😂😂.

Mr. @thecarpathian, I have seen you on this Forum for a long time and know that you post quite often -- sometimes in a spirited manner with other Members. I respect you and what you say, and I can’t think of an instance where you went "over the line". All I can say in response to your comment above: It’s not being unhappy with the way things are run. I very much enjoy this site and the information that is shared openly and freely. What bothers me is seeing "Forum Guidelines" that are not followed at best, or totally ignored at worst, because honestly, I have no idea which posts cross the line and which do not based on the discussions/debates/outright name-calling flame fests I’ve seen over the last 8 years on this site. Don’t believe me? Just go to the Forum Library and search "Cable Deniers", "After Market Fuses", or "Should I Burn In My Gear", pop a huge bowl of popcorn, and prepare for WWIII. Why are post like these that can run 4 or 5 pages deep containing upwards of 300 comments (290 of which contain nothing except rude comments and school yard taunts) allowed to stay up...yet the post we are discussing now which referenced fraudulent activity where individuals had already lost thousands of dollars....gets shut down?

I’m hoping the one scammer got kicked off the online shopping site due to the actions of @verdantaudio and others who alerted the Kansas Fraud Department. I for one tip my hat to Members who publicize these Public Service Announcements to help protect us -- even if it leads to someone running to the Admins. At least SOME WORD will get out if the post ultimately gets shut down.

@thecarpathian -- If you can figure out why our cats are jerks, please let me know and we will market the "solution" making millions of dollars in the process! My 7 month old rescues (an Orange brother and his Tortie sister) are teaching my wife and I a thing or thirty about kittens! Mainly, they have one brain cell between them and they take turns using it!

I had no idea you could continue to post on closed threads. I can’t even find the thread once it has been shut down. For example, the thread by @verdantaudio we are discussing does not come up if you search for it. However, if you saved the daily email from Audiogon that had the thread listed (which I did), it appears if you click the link. Must be an Audiogon glitch. You can’t make additional posts -- but you can read the OP and all the comments that get addressed one by one.

@rooze -- I completely understand and get that. The 2 websites mentioned in the original post, which I saved to follow up on, are SO OUTSIDE the box of "is it or isn’t it fraud" that it is mind-blowing they stayed on the Shopify site for as long as they did. According to @verdantaudio, the site located "in Kansas" is now blocked on Shopify (do a Google Earth search to see their sprawling barn and silo where I’m sure they keep $15,000 speakers 😂🤣). I’ve intentionally NEVER named the 2 companies in any post to avoid just what you highlighted.

@immatthewj -- Thanks for doing a wonderful thing!  Dobby and Kossa keeps us on our toes.  We also have two GrandDogs that keep us hopping.  Bruce "The Brown Dog" is a 35-pound 13 year old Boxer and Plott Hound mix, and his baby brother is a 95 pound 3 year old Siberian Huskie and Dane mix.  He's a BIG BOY!

@immatthewj -- The Plott Hound is not widely known outside of North and South Carolina, but they are gaining popularity.  Briefly:

The Plott Hound is a large scent hound, originally bred for hunting bears. In 1989, the North Carolina General Assembly designated the Plott Hound as the official State Dog.^[The Plott Hound was first registered with the United Kennel Club in 1946. Plott Hounds were recognized by the American Kennel Club in 2006 and were exhibited at the Westminster Show in 2008. The Plott Balsams, a mountain range in North Carolina, are named for the Plott family, whose ancestor, (Johannes) George Plott (c. 1733–1815), immigrated to North Carolina in the late 18th century from Germany. The Plott Hound breed of hunting dog is also named for the Plotts. The ancestors of today's Plott Hounds were used for boar hunting in Germany. Originally from Germany, in 1750 Johannes "George" Plott emigrated to the English colony of North Carolina. He brought a few wild boarhounds (five Hanover Hounds, used for bear and boar hunting) with him. These dogs had been bred for generations for their stamina and gameness. George and his wife Margaret with their family settled in the mountains of western North Carolina.

@czarivey -- Thanks, Brother.  Sometimes we just need to brag on our Fur Kids.  My own kids are full-fledged adults....so Fur Kids are all I have that mind me (sometimes).

@immatthewj -- Yes, Bruce The Brown Dog (when he was a puppy people would look at this strange looking dog and ask, "What is he?".  My son would say, "He's a Brown Dog!") is definitely on the smaller side.  He has lost probably 10 pounds in the last few years.  Getting to be an old feller.  Been with us 13 years and still lives to chase his ball.  You have extra dependents, not pets.  That's some big pups!

@tonywinga -- After reading your reply above, I had to visit the "Jay's Thread" because I had missed it.  Loved your story about how you acquired the MoFi version of the Alan Parson's masterpiece. 

"Tales of Mystery and Imagination..." in 1976 was my introduction to The Alan Parson's Project.  The drummer in my band was my best buddy, and we had, of course, flipped out over "Dark Side of the Moon" by Floyd.  So we when read that the engineer for that record had recorded a concept album about Poe (my favorite author) AND WE FOUND OUT he used the members of Ambrosia (a band we fell in love with after hearing their debut album) I immediately went to my favorite record store and ordered it.  We must have played it 10 times in a row that night, stoned out of our gourds.  From that point until the release of "Eye in the Sky" in 1982, I was at my record store the day Parson's dropped a new release, grabbing a copy and rushing home to my turntable.  My favorite Parson's albums are the first three -- "Tales of Mystery...", "I Robot", and "Pyramid".  An amazing stretch of releases.