I Am Tired of Bogus Measurements

@kota1. "I think the measurement thing is bogus because it is supposed to predict how it will sound in my system".

Can you provide any evidence to back up that assertion?

@gregdude. It’s a matter of simple logic. The measurements and the measurer are blind to the system that the component being measured will be used in. Therefore the "is supposed to predict" assertion in the OP is fallacious. It’s an example of the common "argument based on false premises" fallacy.

@kota1 - thanks for your reply. I think the argument perhaps needs to be separated out into two strands. If your essential argument is that - measurements don't reveal how a component sounds and that the reveal even less how a component will sound in a given system - then by and large, I agree with you. At component level (with some exceptions as set out below ( and for clarity, I mean for example, a CD player and not the individual components in the player) unless measurements reveal gross defects then they say little enough about sound quality and certainly do not describe sound quality in substantive way. The same applies cumulatively at system level.

The exceptions to the above are that certain measurements of amplifiers do correlate pretty well with subjective sound quality. For example, SET amps tend to measure pretty similarly in regard to their levels of harmonic distortion and that is subjectively audible. Secondly, there is a reasonable correlation between loudspeaker measurements and aspects of subjective sound quality. But for completeness, I am not arguing that those correlations are in any way comprehensive.

Going back to the basic argument, I still feel that it's a leap of logic from there to concluding that measurements are not useful. The progress of science depends on the formulation of hypotheses and repeatably testing and validating. The more engineers and designers measure, the better they can understand the relationship between their design choices and the subjective performance of their designs.

@kota1. Now you have me really confused. Are you now saying that measurements are good as long as they validate your subjective experience?

@kota1. You still have me confused. Are you saying that:

(a) measurements are bogus i.e. false and untrue or

(b) that some people use accurate measurements but make bogus claims on foot of them or

(c) that some people use bogus i.e. false measurements to support bogus claims?

For clarity please state which of the above (or combination) you are arguing.

Summary of this lengthy topic. Bogus is whatever Kota 1 wants it to be.

On that basis, as they say over here on Dragon's Den, I'm out.

@clearthinker - I am out, but just to say, I am entirely with you on this one.

@bigtwin - I think the measure of this thread has reached Elvis Costello first album level - Less Than Zero:)