Hugos,the high ceiling is a big benefit.When I bought my Avalon Ascent MK-2's I had a dedicated room built,literally to match the speaker energy projection.Only 8 ft ceiling,though.Due to construction costs.I had been advised by Avalon,on the dimensions,so it worked out great.It took me a couple of years to get it right.I have a large collection of original label Decca,Emi,Mercury,and Rca lp's.Along wiyh many other labels.I designed the room to allow for built in record shelves along the sides.This gave me good diffraction properties.I,then experimented(it helps that I have some very experienced audio friends)with various accoustical treatments.Remember,before the Osiris,the Ascent was Avalon's premier design,and are really an incredible speaker,but not designed for too large a room.I knew this and have been very careful with ancillaries(Rowland/Audio Research,all highly modified,btw),as well as careful room treatment.
You will have to be EVEN MORE conscious of your room's characteristics,as you will be generating much more energy,than me.I see no reason for it to be anything less than superb in low frequency energy,contrary to what was previously stated,with alot of care.This IS important,and cannot be overemphasized!!I'll try to be specific,since you have asked for the advice,but don't take my word as final.You must experiment,and research what is involved in proper room acoustics.You do not have to hire an outside service,for this,as careful personal comparisons are really all you need.As long as you aren't impatient.
Also--DO NOT treat the ceilings with any damping material.I have tried this,a few times.Once at the recommendation of a well known audio reviewer,who I knew,and it closed down the sound.DO treat the side wall area,depending on room width,with either something like energy absorption,or diffraction.Trial and error will come into play,but you WILL be rewarded.
Hugos,I have my equipment(as stated Rowland 8t,two chasis model,with second chasis upgraded from bettery to switch mode power supply,Audio Research Pre/phono,Levinson CD,SOTA table with Graham arm/Transfiguration,and good cabling)situated behind my equipment,like you do.This gives some degree of diffraction,and I have a narrow thin rug type awning above the equipment,in area behind speakers.I,also have corner tube traps,behind speakers,in corners.NOT TOO wide tube traps,as I had to experiment here.I have some 1/2 round, 5 foot tube traps mounted on wall to the side of the speakers,actually just behind where cabinet ends.Behind my listening area is a bay window,treated with a long absorptive(not alot)shade.To the side of my ear area is some flat Tube trap panels.I have small corner tunes,in area behind,and above speakers,along with a couple of flat absorptive panels.All carefully experimented with.
Oh yeah,I have carpeting in the room,and have mentioned that I use a REL Stentor sub bass system(behind right speaker)that is crossed over at 24 hz,and is set with VERY low gain,so as not to impede the Avalons' soundstage.
That should give you an idea of what I have done,which is NOT your room,obviously,yet maybe you can get something out of it.Obviously I'm supremely happy,but I've spent years modifying almost every piece of equipment,as well as the room.
The other things to cover,again,is bring the Osiris WAY out into room,if you want to hear them really breathe.They are almost like an omni directional speaker,they are so open,when set up right.Little adjustments can be BIG!!!
Also,please don't get mad---but, the what looks like a beautiful marble,on wall,behind system will most likely HAVE to be treated,if you want to hear what your current stuff can really do.Particularly with the Osiris in system.I hope you have an understanding wife,here!That's one reason I built a room.
Well that's about it,for now.I really wish you the best of luck!Keep us posted!! |
Rcprince,I currently have the Ascents 8 1/2 feet out,into a 22.5x13 room.The staging is superb,yet Avalon would like them an additional foot out.This won't happen.Not to sound like I'm trying to rationalise something I own(every hobbyist is guilty of this,to some extent),I have been told by Avalon,that they had recently gotten back a pair of Ascent MK 2's,in trade,and "had forgotten how good they were"!I am constantly appealing to myself,not to rationalize these speakers,yet truthfully cannot find any reason to upgrade.I,also,take care of them "to a museum standard".Steve Huntly,of Great Northern Sound,has also recently stated,to me, that these were Avalon's pinnacle product,in his opinion.Obviously the Osiris is a much better speaker, for a larger room,yet I have been able to bridge the gap(a bit) by adding one REL Stentor sub,and bringing it in at 24hz.Very low gain.What can I say,as I do LOVE SO many competing designs,including much of the new Avalon line,yet the Ascents are an incredibly easy load,and are a sealed box(makes a diff).The external crossover is a really nice touch,and the system maxes out at 110 lbs more(mass is a GOOD thing in many speakers)than the newer competing Avalons.They just exude "old world hand craftsmanship".Well I guess I AM rationalizing a bit,but NOT much!!Though I really do believe that these were discontinued in favor of a better marketing version product,by adding the crossover to one box,and not needing to tri-wire.Makes sense,but I'll still keep my "Iridescent Tropical Olivewood Beauties".I'm really hooked,even years after purchase.That's a REALLY good thing,IMO!
As this thread IS about the Osiris,all I can state is that Avalon has admitted to the fact that it was far too expensive a design to produce(Wilson ruled back then,as they do today,and not alot could be sold),and felt the newer Sentinal(I have not heard this,yet It must be superb)was more economically(from a production standpoint)viable!Anyone wanting to trade me a pair of Osiris' for mine?I'll take it!The Osiris' were capable of incredible dynamic range,like many of todays super speakers.Could reproduce inner detail,also like many of todays top designs,yet few of the really mega speakers could DO realistic timbres,like the Osiris!I don't know,but those modded metal domes,in the upper frequencies,seem more natural than the ceramic stuff.Maybe it's just me.And YES,the Osiris will definitely need to be well out into the room.Anyone owning them I automatically HATE(just kidding)!!
While we are at it(and I'm NOT married to one product line),the Isis looks WAY cute too!!
Best regards. |
The Ascents are a fairly easy load,to drive.Unless your room is huge,and you listen to loud rock,you should be fine.BTW--those are fine components,in and of themselves.
Best! |
Reprince,I hope you are kidding!It's easy to come off,on the web,as a person of real tried and true experience.In actuality I'm just a typical hobbyist,but with some very good,and experienced audio pals.My own takes/experience IS to be taken with a grain of salt,as it is just my personal opinions.Nothing else!The only thing I've learned(after spending multiple thousands on this hobby,which can be like a drug habbit,for some)is that common sense,and good advice from friends,in the know,ALWAYS trumps a "hot product review",or marketing effort.
Best regards! |
Rcprince,I'm not a society/club kind of guy,but thanks for the kind comments.
Funny that you mention Hobson,and his old loft.That is where I first heard my Ascents,and it is Hobson who sold them to me.Along with the Rowlands.Truthfully,I thought the sound he got,the night I auditioned them SUCKED.I never would have bought them,at the time(had Infinity Betas,then)except I knew Michael Gindi,who had them,and basically "swore in blood" that I'd be thrilled,in my own home.I,also knew in advance(from some friends/reviewers,who couldn't keep a secret)that the Ascents were getting very favorable responses from the folks at TAS,and there was going to be a large price increase in two weeks.So I made the move.As a funny aside,the night we went to Hobson's Manhattan loft,as we came down from his apt. we were greeted with Richard Gere,having a rather loud fight with his girl friend,in front of Hobson's house.There was a little restaurant in the front of the bldg.,where I guess they were having a "not so great dinner".My silly friend wanted to say something to him,and I stated that if he did open his mouth,he'd be taking the train home to Brooklyn!
In actuality,with the current crop of equipment I have driving my speakers,they probably go down to 30 or 35 hz,CLEAN,and with staggering dynamics,and detail retrieval.Particularly in the lowere registers,where many(not all,but most)ported designs are designed to favorably enhance the signal.This is not accuracy,but alot of folks like it.
Fortunately,as I live in the Metro area,I can hear ALL the latest stuff,as a means of comparison.I really DO like alot of it,and don't feel that the newer stuff is not also great,yet much of the hot to trot buzz products are,to me,here today and gone tomorrow flavor of the month stuff.After all I've owned and heard, if something stands out,consistently over the course of time,and is built to an heirloom standard,my best interests are served in keeping it updated,and maintaining it,to a high standard.Hey,that's just me! |
Dr.Roland,I'll try to reach you when I get into my ofice,on Thursday.If not,you can reach me at sirspeedy7068@earthlink.net(no 70680,just 7068)BTW,you have wonderful speakers. |
I have heard this speaker,and honestly,it is a CLASSIC.You won't do better,even in todays overpopulated market.One thing,you must have a good sized room,and good amplification.If the speakers are in good shape,and the price is right(list was 72 thousand U.S. dollars),you will be thrilled!!I do have Avalons,but they are the Ascents,which are also a fabulous design(precursor to the Osiris),and quite honestly cannot see myself upgrading to anything else,so long as I am in my current mid sized room.Even these speakers were still WAY ahead of their time,and easy to drive,like the Osiris!!Also,both the Osiris and Ascent mk2,used very good metal dome technology(two modified titanium tweeters and an aluminum/magnesium mid driver on the Osiris.These drivers,regardless of industry hype,are INCREDIBLY revealing,yet to my ear,are extremely good at getting timbres correct.Resolution is,also,exemplary!They will ruthlessly reveal any upstream problems.This can be wonderful,if you have a carefully voiced system,yet is a nightmare,if you don't give it really good ancillary stuff.
Best to you,and keep me posted. |
BTW-I took a look at your equipment list.I begin to wonder if you are a collector or dealer.If you are a collector,I really love your stuff.You definitely have the ancillaries to drive the Osiris.If a dealer,you have some great stuff,that unfortunately,you won't experience much.
One thing,pertaining to room acoustics,is PLEASE make sure to give CLOSE attention,if you go for the Osiris.Your room seems a bit under treated,though I have not seen the entire room picture.The Osiris MUST have a very carefully treated room,and this is how I have heard them.Based on this parameter,you should be the envy of a ton of hobbyists.Including me.
Best regards. |
Hugos,thanks for the continued correspondence.You are clearly on your way to audio nirvana.If not already there.I'm really happy for you!!
The system and acoustical issues will ultimately work themselves out.So long as you do a little research into how to set up a room,for acoustical performance.You will find that,once the room acoustical issues are dealt with,the performance/voicing of some of your cable choices may change.This is due,to a great extent,to room/music interface,impacting how we perceive timbral information.It is a learning curve we all make.I'm still learning,all the time.
As to selling the Opus,to get the Ascent.I'd suggest you do not do so.The reason being--You have alot on your plate,already,in dealing with the possible addition(I'm assuming you're getting the Osiris)of a full range system like the Osiris.Put your attention into the MAIN set up,before dealing with secondary stuff.Plus,I don't want to come off as some do,in overhyping my own speakers(in this case the Ascent MK-2),although I have heard a TON of current systems,and there is no doubt,to me,that the Ascent is directly competitive with any newer designs,putting out the same basic energy.I love much of the new stuff,but,as an experienced hobbyist has proven to me(a dear friend,actually)in his own set-up(he is a former reviewer),using common sense,and having a good ear,will tell you if you really think a later design is actually superior to some older ones.Sometimes yes,and sometimes not really.Though if you do go for the Osiris,and set it up well,I can promise you that you won't be listening to the Bishops too much!
Anyway,I wish you the best!!
Regards,from New Jersey. |
George,I'm really happily surprised as to your pleasant response to me.I've kind of felt that you were a very knowledgeable,but somewhat edgy(in a good way)audio buff.I do agree with much of your overall feelings pertaining to things audio,but not having your language command,have gotten myself into a bit of trouble.I have seen your component selections,and have mentioned it to a good amount of my little group.Your overall set-up has gone over very well with almost everyone.BTW-I'm NOT stroking you.You clearly know what you're doing.Believe me,when I state that I have been through a ton of stuff,and am really satisfied,beyond belief,with my current stuff.I simply have a specific sound that I aspire to.This has been really hard for me to achieve,and I'm not going to move on,in lieu of some new review/marketing pitch.Though alot of my set-up is really quite new,when you factor in the numerous updates/rebuilds,I've made.I simply feel that if there is a way to update a really good existing product,that has proven it's worth,that's the way to go.I used to replace stuff regularly,and was never happy,when actually listening to my music collection.I've simply taken a different approach,for me only.Some still love the latest buzz product.No laws broken there.Without rationalization,my group would be on me in a second,if there were any glaring problems in my set-up.BTW--I have a pal who has just upgraded from the 3.6 to the 20.1.Unfortunately he is having more than a few problems with his new Huricanes(not the weather).Thought you might be interested.
Best regards!! |
Hugos,I'm happy for you.Don't get on the non stop buying and selling syndrome.You can never get great sound until you buy good stuff,and live with it awhile.As time goes on,you will find correct cable matching,etc!Best wishes.
Robetje--I have the two additional mods offered by Avalon,at the time.These were--updated, modified by Avalon tweeters.Much better than the stock.Incredible detail,and extension.Also--there was a woofer mod,which was a reinforcment,from behind the driver,of the driver "basket".This added more impact,but did not allow the system to go below about 40hz.The frequency limitation of these speakers (which really is NO big deal,as the midbass blows away any ported design,I've heard,in actual realism,as opposed to Hi Fi effect)is easily corrected with a really good sub,like one of the better REL's.Once this is implemented,you get a HUGE soundstage,but it took me a really long time to properly voice the sub,since the Ascents are so fast,and articulate,in the bottom octave.In a good sized room,the sub really deepens the bottom,but it must be used with discretion(not turned up alot,and very low crossover point).The combination is directly competitive with some of the Kharma/sub preferences,which are popular,but the Kharmas,though well regarded for soundstage,cannot approach the staging of the Ascent/REL Stentor combo,and really cannot match,IMO,the timbral accuracy,here.Not close,actually,AND obviously this set-up is NOT the latest product,from the latest line-up,but who cares!!Great performance is great performance.I doubt that STRAD owners,or Vintage Martin guitar owners are running out to get the latest replacement instruments.Not that new stuff is not great,but why dump something that performs to such an incredibly high standard.When I get a good answer to that one,I'll consider it!
Best to all. |
