Hubbell HG, Surge Protected & IG, Anyone use this?


I was researching Hospital Grade Isolated Ground power receptacles and came across these in Hubbell's catalog, which combines Hospital Grade, Surge Protection and Isolated Ground in one receptacle.

Part numbers with a prefix of IG8262 (15AMP) and IG8362 (20AMP). These parts come in 6 colors (Blue, Ivory, Gray, White, Orange and Red) and have a rating of "240 Joules/13000A per mode" and meet UL Stds 1449 2nd edition and the 15AMP version is CSA Certified. I called Hubbell Tech Services and asked what if anything is the difference besides the added surge protection compared to the HG IG8300 that is so well known on this forum. The answer: The IG8262/IG8362 uses a steel strap, is riveted and may not grip as well as the 8300 but is still a HG quality receptacle. The Tech Person could not answer any audio related questions.

Two questions relating to the IG8262 (15AMP) and IG8362 (20AMP): see background below for details of my setup/config
1. How will the built in surge protector affect the quality & flow of the power and/or sound compared to the IG8300.
2. How will the steel strap and rivets affect the quality of the power and/or sound compared to the IG8300. (which as many of you know, does not use steel or rivets)

I wanted to use the following color scheme for all the HS IG receptacles and the Hubbell IG8x62 series has the colors, but the IG8300 only comes in Orange, PS Audio Power Port only in Gray, etc.: Orange for UPS protected devices, Gray for filtered/conditioned protected devices and White for supplying power to a protection device (ie: filter/conditioner and/or UPS) or Subwoofer. (Std non-dedicated, non-protected outlets are white without the HG IG symbols)

I will gladly sacrifice color for better power flow and better sound quality if I have to! The bottom line: Is there a difference that I may hear based on the background & equipment detailed below.

Any other options for HG & IG audio quality receptacles in the colors above? (with or without the surge protection)

David
Sun Certified Network Administrator and MCSE
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Background:
- New 1yr old house and finishing the basement with a Theater and Equipment Room, etc.
- Whole House Surge Protector (new APC: PMP2X) installed at main service panel.
- A subpanel in the Equipment Room (ER) wired from the main service panel using a dedicated 80AMP circuit breaker and in wall 4-gauge Hospital Grade MC-4-2 line. (MC-4-2 is Hospital Grade wire that uses a metal flex conduit w/ 4-gauge solid 2-conductor plus a 6-gauge solid insulated ground)

- The subpanel in the ER supplies:
- AV Equipment Cabinet from a 20AMP circuit using 10-gauge MC-10-2 wire (same as above but w/ 10-gauge 2-conductor & 12-gauge ground) and metal boxes.
- Two subwoofers each on their own 20AMP circuits using 10-gauge MC-10-2 wire and metal boxes. (one circuit to the front subwoofer and the 2nd to the rear sub)
- Computer/LAN Cabinet (APC 2200XL UPS) on a 30AMP/120V circuit using 10-gauge MC-10-2 wire and metal boxes.

- The AV Cabinet is protected first by a Monster Power AVS 2000 then an HTPS 7000 which is plugged into the AVS2000 (per tech engineers at Monster). (

- Patch outlets (type yet to be determined) in the wall next to the AV Cabinet supply outlet and more next to the UPS supply outlet will be used to power the other end of each patch outlet. A heavy power cord (TBD, suggestions?) will connect the filtered/protected power output from the Monster HTPS 7000 to the Patch Outlet in order to energize a given Patch line. (think of each of these as a dedicated run, in-wall extension cord using MC-10-2 or MC-12-2. 10-gauge for RPTV and future ceiling projector runs and 12-gauge for the Crestron touch panel outlet in the theater and non-audio or non-computer related outlets that still benefit from HG IG on UPS protection such as two separate runs to the Study on the main floor for the computers, etc.)

For the subwoofers (not supplied from HTPS 7000), I will use the "Monster Cable Subwoofer PowerCenter SW 200 with Clean Power Stage 1 v2.0" because it provides 1110-joule surge protection vs the 240 in the IG8362.

Current equipment details not listed above:
(all cables are Monster Cable brand off the shelf or custom lengths terminated at factory w/ Monster Locks for speaker and same grade terminators as off the shelf for all others including the in-wall runs)

- Denon AVR5803 as main for Theater (7.1 and 9.1 modes)
- Pioneer Elite PRO-710HD RPTV (wire: MVHDDB15, M1000CV-8M, etc.)
- Sony DVP-S7000 DVD Player (with factory upgrades) (wire: M1000v Silver Video component & COAX audio)
- Speakers: Snell:
- Main: E.5 (wire: M1.4s biwired)
- Center: CR.5 (wire: M1.2s)
- Rear (corners): K.5 (wire: M1.4s biwired)
- Side Surround: SR.5 (wire: MCX-2s)
- Rear Surrounds (EX): CLS.5 (wire: MCX-2s)
- Velodyne: HGS-15II (THX Ultra2 cert.) Front/Main Sub (wire: MSB850SW w/ supplied MSB850SW Y-splitter (1F-2M) and a factory custom MSB850SW Y-splitter (1M-2F) at Denon AVR5803 for signal to other Sub)
- Energy e:XL S10 10" Rear Sub (wire: MB400SW)
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hawkwindeb
For the record, Bob is employed in a field that is extremely high tech and 100% dependent on clean and reliable AC. If his "shop", which is loaded with phenomenally expensive audio / video / RF / computer gear has dozens upon dozens of antennas on the property, happened to go down due to AC or lightning related problems, people around the world would know about it in a moments time. I am NOT joking. As such, i'm sure that they've taken major precautions to safeguard both their equipment and the companies' livelihood in a manner that is both "bullet-proof" and non-detrimental in terms of AC & lightning protection. The obvious conclusion, if one knew Bob's background as i do, is that much of his knowledge on the subject is both job related AND from first hand experience at home. As such, if someone wanted to learn about such things, Bob may be able to help you out without giving you the sales pitch that you would get from a "professional" salesman or installer. Sean
>
Bob, anyone, should I give up my color scheme for the Orange IG8300? Will I hear a difference compared to the IG8362 with the surge protector, steal strap and rivet?

To all: I too have been there, done that. (Although not to the extent that Bob's has - no smoke & flames but did have to go through filing an insurance claim – no more aging cheap surge protectors)

I'm a Systems Integrator for computer systems, networks and security. Almost 20 years ago I went through 3M's Electrostatic Discharge (ESD) & protection from it type training, and since then have dealt with designing requirements for, integration and implementing computer systems, networks and security along with UPS, surge protection and ESD Protection for clients. (and myself)

I know for example that even relatively small: transients/surges (including ESD), deformed sine waves, brownouts, overages, EMI/RFI, etc. will degrade components within a given device over time with the ultimate result of failure of the device. Therefore, protection from these is vital for the protection of one's investment and time. And yes, inside one's house is a minefield of sources for surges especially ESD that require protection to be implemented. (most know the major culprits, but the so called minor ones can cause damage over time such as the powering on and off of PC's & monitors, microwave ovens, bathroom fans (major source!!!!!), exercise equipment (powered treadmills!!! WOW what a source!!!), etc.

As for that treadmill which is a "True" brand and almost top of their line: Just watch a lamp plugged into the same circuit and yes every step one takes not only dims the light for a portion of each step one takes but shoots surges and noise into the electrical system. (no, I have not measured it ... yet) A good quality surge protector (which of course is in use) will help limit the surges and noise from the treadmill out to the rest of the house but not completely - remember that noise is diminished (X dB reduction) but not eliminated and the brownout for every step taken is not resolved which will affect most devices.

Of course one can really isolate power such as a dedicated feed and/or separate service entrance for power destined for your AV equipment but this of course does not protect one from ESD. However, even this isolated power can be easily bypassed if one does not connect every item that is wired in any way (Coax, interconnects (like powered subwoofers), wired remotes, etc.) to this power. BTW: seems that it's a catch 22, because too many devices and you may have limited the culprits but still have introduced source for many of the problems listed above. Hopefully the high quality of the power supplies in all the attached components will limit the problems but not eliminate them.

Part of any protection scheme must include all the inbound signals and attached devices. Including surge protectors on the telephone line, antennas (HDTV, Sat, FM, etc.), CATV, etc. If one has wired RS-232 or RS-4xx communication from a Crestron type device to for example an HVAC system, then one should use an RS-232/4xx surge protection device. ie: close all back doors for surges, etc. (APC Protectnet devices: model PV for any AV type coax (antenna, cable modem, DSS, etc), P232 and a 4-port ver: P232-4 for RS-232/4xx, PTEL or 4-port PTEL-4 for telephone. I have two P232-4, one PTEL-4, and four PV in line at the entrance of the respective service except the P232-4's which will be mounted inside the AV Cabinet protecting my Crestron AV2 and even the RS232 line between the Crestron and the Denon AVR5803's RS232 port is protecting one from the other in case of malfunction of one sending a surge over the serial line to the other)

As for ESD, keep styrofoam and especially scotch tape away form all AV, computer, network, etc. type equipment or anything that is attached to them. Also don't even stand next to that equipment when using scotch tape!! Properly ground equipment cabinets/racks for ESD. I have designed an ESD protection scheme for my Equipment Room using 3M ESD Floor Mats, etc. and the Theater side of the AV Cabinet. Three in-wall insolated (green) ground wires wired from the subpanel's ground bar (same termination point for all receptacle grounds associated w/ the ER & Theater in order to prevent ground loops) is attached to: (one size smaller than the ground wire in the outlet supplying power to the given device/cabinets to encourage the flow through the receptacle's ground):
1. AV Equipment Cabinet
2. Solid copper ground bar on the wall next to the Computer/LAN Cabinet. The cabinet is attached to the bar using the same gauge size as the in-wall ground wired to the bar and the 3M ESD Floor Mats will be wired to this bar)
3. A wall plate on an electrical type box that I'm designing that will be next to the handle on the Theater side of the AV Equipment Cabinet with the rule that one must touch this before touching the cabinet. (Since no device is connected to this line, we used a 10-gauge wire. Also, a 1 Mega ohm resister will be in installed in-line to properly drain/dissipate the ESD without the sound/pain/EMI/RFI associated with the spark - this is per 3M ESD standards. If one forgets, the cabinet is grounded and will drain/dissipate the ESD. I'm looking into the need to attach a drain pad/wire (w/ a 1 Mega ohm resister) to the plexi portion of the door (the door has a steel frame but most of the door is plexi) to dissipate ES w/o the spark at the same time providing a backup to the wall plate). Some people may think that I'm going to extremes w/ ESD protection but they don't really understand the threat that ESD poses. Every cable and open connector on the back of the devices is waiting for an ESD disaster or will at least cause some damage. Even touching the front outside of a device (inserting a CD/DVD and touching the chassis) can and will in most cases allow the ESD inside the chassis and damage interior components. Most non-ruggedized-military equipment (ie: not designed with complete ESD protection) will allow ESD inside.

(btw, I have not talked about all the different kinds of ESD and their potential for damage)

Sorry to be so long winded...
David
Bob/anyone, I need to place the order: Should I give up my color scheme for the Orange IG8300? Will I hear a difference compared to the IG8362 with the surge protector, steal strap and rivet?

Please advise.
David
David sorry but no one can answer your question but you. What happens & the differences perceived when you combine certain elements together into a system is unique to that system alone. Try the setup in various ways. If you are happy with the results when using the desired colors then stick with that. If not then continue to experiment.
There is one problem that can be a real bummer. A tree falling against a pole-mounted transformer. this can send a charge up the street and take out several service panels. i speak from experience. The property-owner who's tree came crashing down paid for a whole block of new transformers with insurance. the insurance adjuster allowed each of us to contact our own electrician and more than a few of us got a upgrade out of the deal as it would otherwise not have passed modern codes. The event fried several computers, even those having the Radioshack strips resting on the floor. Here is an event that settles the 'lightning debate'