That’s the biggest blunder I’ve ever seen you make here, Miller. There’s a big difference between the neutral (grounded) conductor, and the ground wire, the later being solely as a safety measure in the event of an equipment malfunction.If the OP’s piece came with a three-prong cord, it was for a reason. (it’s the chassis ground, not the neutral wire)
Nothing is grounded to the plumbing any longer, hasn't been for decades. The plumbing is all plastic in most modern homes.
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I'm not sure if any subject has had more incorrect advice given about it than electricity. And I'm not even knowledgeable enough to recognize most of it. Thanks, Jim.
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From some posts here, apparently many homes continue to be grounded via the water line. Haven't done that here for ages, almost all of the plumbing is PEX, and even on older homes (like mine), enough modern repairs have been made with plastic that it has interrupted that ground path in many instances. Every new home I've been on for over twenty has been grounded to an 8' ground rod at the panel, and for quite a few years now, two 8' ground rods.
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Mickeyb, if the panel and meter are grounded to two ground rods (NEC code currently, I believe) what is the additional grounding to the water line?? I’m curious.
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ieales, I've seen 2 homes that have been struck by lightning, which isn't that common here. One was older, one very new. The lightning certainly made it's way to ground alright, used about a fourth of the home to do so, including even the framing and siding. The ground wire at the panel was sorely outmatched, shall we say. I think the service mast was blown clear out of the wall on the older home, IIRC. Small sample, no idea what "normal" may be.
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Erik, thanks. Your last post is generally in line with my observations. (I’m a builder, been 31 years). Everything gets dedicated ground rods now. No waterpipes, no Ufers cast in the foundation, etc. It’s not that a buried line wouldn’t normally be sufficient, it’s that there’s too much potential for it to become rendered ineffective though ongoing plumbing modernization and repairs. It’s happening at my house currently, nearly 70 year old water line feeding the home, big section of it is going away, replaced with PEX.
Jim, thanks as well. I’ve read your answer about six times. I understand what it says (pretty sure), but don’t understand why. Can you offer an explanation. At anywhere beyond the most remedial, I don’t comprehend the interaction of the neutral and the ground, when they’re bonded, when they’re not, etc. I realize this may be a tall order, if so, just say so.
Thanks
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miller, as much as I appreciate 99% of your posts, I’m not sure how you defend your position on this. It’s simple. The ground is the only safeguard in the event that any metal item becomes energized due to an equipment defect or failure.
Our house was built in 1952. I can't tell you what the code requirements may have been then. Jim may know. Everything was wired with two-conductor cables, forerunner of romex, I guess. All the boxes, etc, were metal, and they all were connected with a dedicated ground wire, one to the other. I’ve yet to find a fault in any of it, I’ve probably modernized 30% of the home, at this point. There wasn’t a three prong outlet anywhere, (not sure if they existed at the time) so you’re on your own with the toaster, etc, but every box, switch, plug, etc, was grounded. Somebody knew it was important then. It still is.
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We have trees. Of course, they're far more likely to crush our house in a storm than get hit by lightning. Whadya gonna do?
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miller, you are still missing the point, and in a big way. The ground is a safety device, carrying current to ground (rather than the home-owner) in the case of dangerous malfunction or device failure. The ground has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual circuit. The neutral isn't, it's a conductor. It isn't used as a safety device.
And as far as my "charming story", of course I realize what you, in your boundless arrogance, seem to think I could never have thought of. I understand completely that nothing plugged in at my house was ever grounded. Hadn't gotten that far yet, in the scheme of things. Everything else was, though. The metal box, which you wouldn't normally contact, and thru it, all the metal in every switch, outlet, light fixture, heater, etc, etc, all grounded.
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Jim, I appreciate you taking the time, and also spelling it out in a way easily digested by a layman. I’m out west, in Oregon. The AHJ here for years was the State Electrical Inspector, most were great with one exception. A few years back, that responsibility fell to the local county inspector, presumably with a few courses under his belt, and the State’s blessing. The PUD has never had any requirements that I’ve been aware of regarding the location of the ground rod(s), so they are always located beside the footing, from what I’ve seen. Bear in mind it’s pretty wet, here.
The only real difference I see here is the lack of a bond to the water pipe. I understand everything you’ve written on that, and can’t disagree with any of it. But it’s just never done here, NEC or no. Just about all new homes are PEX, from the meter, so there’s that. But even in the earlier ones, it just hasn’t been done to my knowledge for about 25 years here. I’m sure you understand exactly why it’s an issue. I’ve been under so many homes where the ground was clamped on the nearest copper or iron pipe, which was sometime later rendered worthless with modern repairs. Obviously the fault lies with the choice of the original clamp location. Once again, thank you.
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Plug it in and unplug it about a thousand times, this has worked without exception on every Skilsaw and extension cord I've ever owned. (couldn't resist any longer)
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Edison was a proponent of DC, he intended to wire our homes like giant flashlights. Tesla was the man behind alternating current.
There was a need for grounded appliances, etc, from day one, Erik. No different really than seat belts. Just took a while to evolve.
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Jim, once again, thanks for taking the time. Haven't watched that video yet, but it's cued up.
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