How to proceed?

@czarivey 

Agreed -- I could always go back to the signal chain I had before sibilance and fatigue emerged. 

@mitch2 

To clarify, I'm not looking for particular dac recommendations so much as design characteristics/features associated with noise suppression to keep in mind. 

@gdnrbob

I mentioned Jay’s transport and Hegel integrated. I don’t think speakers are contributing to the problem but they are Silverline SR17.5 monitors. I've tried various scenarios, including slaving the Aqua to the Hegel's clock, which made matters worse. The one consistent result was that sibilance was worse with the Aqua in the signal chain.

@fthompson251

Yes-- I should’ve mentioned that’s the only thing that’s occured to me, so far, to try.

@gdnrbob 

No doubt, but I've had these speakers for a long time, with other components and never had a sibilance problem.

@hilde45

I don’t know it’s the DAC for certain. What I do know is that when the Aqua DAC is in the signal chain, there’s fatigue and exaggerated sibilance. When I run my Jay’s transport direct into the Hegel’s DAC, fatigue goes away and while there is still some sibilance, it is not nearly so exaggerated. BUT, the sound is quite lean unless cranked. I may try a Border Patrol, which is affordable and could be returned if it didn't work out.

On the whole, this system is way more resolving than its predecessor, so it’s possible the sibilance is coming from somewhere else and was simply not evident up to this point. It could be the room. If this is the case, probably the only course is to revert to a less-resolving system.

Others have suggested the Hegel may be the culprit. I hate to give it up because I love how it brings my speakers to life. At 67, I don’t want to deal with an even heavier Coda or Pass. I had a tubey-sounding Wells Majestic that was nice but lacked control in the bass, which is why I began searching for an alternative and ended up with the Hegel. As I haven’t been active in the local audiophile community, those might be able to loan me gear "don’t know me from Adam". Paying the price for my introversion!

Thanks for your interest.

@mahgister

A Schiit Lokius didn’t help but perhaps a unit with more bands????

@mahgister

I wasn’t actually looking for more resolution. I’m much more a music lover who prizes emotional engagement. I was looking to correct the poorly-controlled bass I was getting in my previous system, which I found distracting and increasingly dissatisfying. Hegel amps are known for their high damping factor and the H390 has not only brought much better bass control but the speakers have come to come to life in a way that made me question whether I’d ever heard what they could do, before bringing in the Hegel.

It’s possible the next acquisition might’ve been a "bridge too far" -- replacing the simaudio transport with the Jay’s. However, when I tried swapping it out for my old Jolida CDP as a transport the sibilance was actually worse. So, I dunno what to think... ;o/

@mahgister

I only say that the dac may not be the problem in itself but the synergy on some frequencies response never mind if it is very good on some other aspects between it and the rest of gear

If this is true, then would logic suggest swapping out only one component at the time (DAC, Amp or Transport) might not be sufficient -- that I might have to try multiple combinations of components? I ask this because you are better at logic ! ;o)

@jetter 

RE: ferro-fluid, I’ll e-mail Silverline.

Really-- a standard RCA IC ? OK...

@jetter

Coax isn’t damaged and is not within reach of dog. ;o)

Sent message to Silverline. 

@mahgister 

Alright. I will start with a different DAC and see what occurs...

@jtcf

Resolution has never been a top priority. I don’t mean to be contentious but did you not read through the thread?

I wasn’t actually looking for more resolution. I’m much more a music lover who prizes emotional engagement. I was looking to correct the poorly-controlled bass I was getting in my previous system, which I found distracting and increasingly dissatisfying. Hegel amps are known for their high damping factor and the H390 has not only brought much better bass control but the speakers have come to come to life in a way that made me question whether I’d ever heard what they could do, before bringing in the Hegel

My IC and power cables are a mix of copper and silver-plated copper, chosen after finding all copper too dark and all silver too bright. My digital cable was described as having "a very liquid warmth that’s more gold than silver" in an Audio Bacon shoot-out among eleven contenders.

I’m not opposed to trying a different cable but I’d be surprised if swapping out a cable would have the same impact that results from removing the Aqua DAC from the system. The same coax BNC is used in both scenarios. When it connects transport to integrated’s internal DAC, fatigue disappears and sibilance is noticeably less exaggerated.

@curiousjim

Take a look at my virtual system page and you will see it is not at all optimal for audio. There is a wall of glass on one side, a tiled hearth, glass topped coffee table, etc. WAF disallows any panels. Nevertheless, my previous system (same speakers + dac, with Wells Audio Majestic integrated and Simaudio transport) was not at all fatiguing and there was not a trace of sibilance. The bass was poorly defined/controlled, which eventually drove me nuts and was the primary motivation for acquiring an integrated known for bass control. The Hegel is, needless to say, far more resolving then the tubey-souding Wells and this aspect, coupled with the Jay’s, which similarly delivers more detail than the Simaudio, may be too much of a good thing. DAC is NOS.

@veroguy

Thanks for sharing strategies you’ve found to be successful. You are astute in recognizing the ICs are also absent from the scenario with the least sibilance and no fatigue. I’ve heard good things about Zavfino. I don’t recall whether they have a return policy. Ditto Triode Labs. I know Jaguar does.

One dac that interests me is Border Patrol, which is very much designed with particular attention to power implementation.

I don't believe you mentioned your choice of digital cable.

@decooney

Thanks for your suggestions. They make sense. Unfortunately, I do not have any unused gear lying around and don’t know anyone who would loan me the gear.

One exception-- I tried my old tubed Joida CDP as a transport and the sibilance was worse.

@audphile1 

Thanks for your suggestions.

I have used The Cable Co. in the past and felt very positive about them but my last experience was so negative, I'm not sure I'd want to go back. 

I had A. Zen Silver Reference and they worked great in my previous system but were too bright once I acquired the Hegel and Jay's. So I tried the Absolute Copper but they were extremely dark sounding, top to bottom. 

I'd be very happy if my problem could be solved via cables.

@jimmy2615 

Aqua is well broken in by now. 

Thanks for the Mojo suggestion. As it happens, I was all set to replace the  Aqua with a Mojo but Benjamin expressed concern about my transport, so I bought the Jay's instead (couldn't afford both). 

@decooney

Perhaps @grannyring has some experience with such mods?

@designsfx

Unfortunately, changing speaker location is not an option. When we built the house, I was just beginning my audio journey. Aside from providing a space for components, I gave audio very little thought.

The dac in the Hegel does not sound rolled off to my ears. If there is any attenuation, it’s in the mids -- there’s an overall lean quality that I’d prefer was not present.

But the main difference I experience, having gone from having the Aqua in the system to listening to the Hegel’s dac several times, is the sense of ease and relief, as though I’ve unconsciously been holding my breath with the Aqua and can suddenly breathe freely when the Hegel’s dac is engaged. It’s not subtle. However, it does seem counterintuitive. I’d expect an r2r dac to be more relaxing.

I have experimented to some degree with covering the glass-topped coffee table, the glass-doored Craftsman bookcase and the tile hearth with fabric and foam dog beds. I’ve heard no difference. Nor does closing the drapes impact the SQ, as far as I can tell. FWIW, according to two experienced audiophile biddies, I have pretty good ears.

it's not clear to me why you would assume the Border Patrol would constitute a backwards step, but then, I've yet to hear it. My only impressions are derived from reviews. 

@zlone

You are correct -- no sibilance with Wells and Simaudio. As an experiment, I tried swapping in an old Jolida CDP as a transport but the sibilance was even worse. I also inserted the Aqua into the Hegel’s loop function, in which it takes over clocking functions and the sibilance was worse than using the Aqua without dac loop.

@decooney

Thanks, Duane. Yes -- I realize the only way I’ll know is to try it myself. To be honest, at this point, I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed by suggestions... hard to know what to try first.

I’m not after uber-detail. I bought the Hegel primarily for its bass grip and then discovered it significantly (in tandem with Jay’s) upped my systems resolution. At first, it seemed a revelation but over time, it’s become fatiguing. Familiar story, I know. My point is that I would gladly trade some resolution for musicality.

@audphile1

Ironically, I live in the town where Pass was located for many years yet  know no one who has a Pass integrated. ;o)

I’d much rather replace the dac than the amp. My inclination is to sell the Aqua, try a Border Patrol and as you’ve suggested, try other cables.

@audphile1 

I don't stream but Patty Griffin's "Useless Desires" is a particularly good example, if you don't mind looking it up. 

The thing is, I'm hearing it (with Aqua) on many tracks that never used to bother me.  This is why it's  a big deal. When I can't enjoy music I've loved for decades, it's a problem. Again, I never had this issue before I got the Hegel and the Jay's.

I had my hearing checked this year and was told there's nothing physiological that would cause this.

@designsfx 

No. The display clearly indicates when oversampling is engaged. Out of curiosity I tried it when I was listening through headphones, tonight. Thin and harsh! Listening through phones with the Hegel dac is much clearer than with Aqua, which sounds very dark by comparison. My headphone setup is very modest- old Grado SR225 through Schiit Jotenheim but the difference is quite apparent

@audphile1 

Can you think of a less costly alternative to the Hurricane?

@decooney 

 perhaps there is some form of impedance or voltage synergy mismatch going on between your Aqua DAC and the Jays transport that exaggerates the issue somehow [when paired together].

Yes, perhaps. Rather above my pay-grade, although I have experienced certain anomalies in the past that might be explained by this theory. My Empirical Audio re-clocker did not play nice with my Simaudio 260DT transport and more recently, a similar issue arose when I attempted to mate a Snake River Audio Boomslang coax cable with the Jay's. 

@audphile1 

 But I would start with the interconnects first.  That would be your biggest improvement. One change at a time.

👍

@decooney 

Unfortunately, I sold the Sim to fund a cable purchase before I ever got the idea to try it in tandem with the Hegel's internal DAC so I'll never know what result that experiment might've yielded. I did try the Sim with the Aqua and the Hegel and the system sounded really dull. 

For the present, I've decided to try the A. Zen IC's @audphile1 recommended, first, before considering a component change. 

@decooney , @audphile1

FYI, it was the XLRs I used for dac loop experiment (since returned) that had the rhodium plugs.

Current RCA ICs are these:

https://audioartcable.com/products/aac-se-ic-s-rca

and these:

https://audioartcable.com/products/aac-se-ic-g-rca

Same wire, different WBT terminations.

@decooney

Thanks for your reflections re: wire and the encouragement. To answer your question, I went with A. Zen Absolute Copper XLRs. 

@audphile1 

I'm really looking forward to the time when I music-listening is no longer compromised by unnatural, unwelcome artifacts!

@mclinnguy 

I have La Voce S2, the first and warmest sounding version of this dac. 

I don't know whether it's particularly finicky re: power cords nor do I know which iteration of the Absolute Coppers I've bought.  The seller rated them "9- excellent" FWTW.  I actually wasn't aware that Mr. Lee continued to tweak them over time. 

@frl 

Thanks for your input. I'm aware that the Gustard has a strong following but to be honest the reviews I've read haven't triggered a desire to experience one for myself. Naturally, YMWV, according to synergy and personal taste. 

@audphile1 

Don’t worry about the iterations of the Absolute Copper. I had an old original version and the latest. Sounded identical to me. The jackets were different

OK.

@decooney

Thanks for your comments. Clearly, there is far more to the subject of cables than I’ve realized.

I’m surprised, to say the least, to learn of your preference for zero room treatments. How did you arrive at such an unorthodox perspective? Given the fact that I have so little flexibility in this regard, I’d be very curious to know if there are any rules of thumb I might be able to utilize in my space.

@blackbag20 

Thanks for your comments. If the sibilance had occurred at a point when I hadn't just replaced two components, I might well call Aqua but it seems highly unlikely to me that what I'm contending with currently is due to a fault in the dac. 

Yes; it's encouraging to receive responses, especially from guys who not only have the expertise but the patience and generosity to stick with me through the entire problem-solving process. 

@audiotroy 

Thanks for your comments. I'm a physical media guy.

If I could afford the Aqua Diva, I would buy it in a heartbeat!  

@decooney

hey there, I was looking back at some old threads in 2019 where you, grannyring, and a few others were going back and forth about the S2, S3...

Thanks for your research on my behalf! I’d forgotten all about that thread. Looking back I see why I opted to stick with S2 -- I was unwilling to surrender the S2’s "warm and organic"quality for the sake of detail. My system is considerably more resolving now than it was back then, so I feel the same way.

One other thought - apologize if this was touched on prior, somewhere. I was looking up the design of the dac and its care to isolated boards and power supplies within the design itself. Not sure about the Hegel, but worth asking anyhow...

Given that Hegel’s claim to fame is ensuring the amp does not degrade the signal between input and output, I’d be surprised if they neglected isolation but I’m no engineer. I do recall from reviews that the H590’s dac board is much better isolated than that in the H390.

AC wise, what is your Hegel amp and Aqua DAC plugged into at this time? By chance was anything changed where everything was plugged into (plug locations, power cords) after adding the two new major components into your system? Have the particular AC wall sockets been checked by an electrician for added noise, by chance? Something else to check if you have not already done so, fwtw.

Amp and dac are plugged into some sort of "audiophile receptacle" (don’t recall brand). It’s not filtered, though. The transport is plugged into a standard receptacle. I had my electrician check connections to both last year and he said they were fine, FWTW. Nothing has been changed since Hegel and Jay’s were brought into system. I’ve received very conflicting advice regarding power treatment. I know that Hegel advises against such measures for their integrateds.

This is embarrassing but it just occurred to me that I may have neglected to mention the AC cords I’m using have the same wire as the IC’s -- copper + silver-plated copper! Sorry about that. Swapping them out for some Audio Art all-copper cords didn’t make a discernible difference but that doesn’t mean that some other all copper AC cord wouldn’t yield improvement. Whether it would make more sense to upgrade the cables or plug the existing cables into a conditioner, I have no idea. I can’t afford to do both, at this point.

@audphile1 

That's something I never thought of. Will see if I can dig them up. 

@alexatpos 

Thanks. I've experimented with this quite a bit but perhaps not in sufficiently small increments. 

@deep_333

Thanks for suggesting the Technics. Like your cooking metaphor!

I haven’t ruled out the Jay’s -- you could be right, although with it feeding Hegel dac, the sibilance is certainly less exaggerated than with Aqua dac in system, and unlike with the Aqua, no fatigue.

No, I did not have the Lokius in EQ defeat mode.

@audioman58 

Thanks for your suggestion.

I'm familiar with a the positive regard for the T+A.

I'm not sure it's the best choice for me.

@jtcf 

Thanks for your comments about the Jay"s. I hope you are right, as I wouldn't know which other transport to buy, at a similar price point!

I live in the boonies in an area of large parcels, each with its own transformer. A PS Audio regenerator had no discerniblle sonic impact  when demo'd 15 years ago but I may, nevertheless, try again with a different unit.  

@hilde45 

Thanks for your suggestions, Dave

As you know @decooney is working with me to solve this puzzle. 

We are going through process of elimination. I've moved speakers around some, so far, without impacting sibilance but I can't say I've done enough in this regard. 

When @decooney comes up, he can assess this, among other factors. 

BTW, my stand mounts have soft-domes and are not bright     ;o)