You still have to settle in with them, and that could take a while...luckily there's so much info out there you can easily educate yourself about a lot of stuff, but you never know until you hook it all up at home (even if you live in the parallel universe of accessable hifi stores inhabited by Elizabeth). If you can exactly replicate your listening room in a large RV you can drive it all over and get stores to let you take things to the parking lot and hook 'em up (an extreme solution, but hey...). Anything I'm remotely interestd in I read all about and usually am happy with the results even if I can't audition something, although there have been a few unpleasant surprises. |
I listen to live music as a sound mixer (and as merely another unimportant little audience member) often, and play live music every day as a musician and pretend "bon vivant." I beg to differ about this "live music" requirement for home audio "reference" as I think the home is so absolutely different than any venue (except my home which has been used as a venue for "house concerts"....but still), it's sort of a meaningless thing...unless the hapless speaker shopper has NEVER heard music, in which case there are other, more personal issues at hand (the need to get out more, deafness, a mental disorder that renders the victim "opinionless"). You could do this: If you want to see what a piano really sounds like, go to a Steinway dealer and have them hold you over the open piano with your head facing down onto the sound board while somebody plays the thing, and afterwards put earplugs in and hurry over to a High End dealer and plunk in front of speakers (remember to remove the earplugs). This won't work, but it could be fun. I still think my "living room replicating Winnabago" idea is the way to go, or simply read reviews, listen to speakers someplace, go to Carnegie Hall when the strike ends if only to support live stuff, buy something and if it sucks sell it and get something else. See? All better now. |
Indeed, but what about my Winebago idea? |
Note that live drums go through plenty of processing at concerts including compression, digital reverbs, input pads, etc. The reason live drum sounds don't go through your hifi is the fact that uncompressed drums would blow up most any home system's speakers, unless you're using large, professional, huge coil 15" or 18" woofers. Try it...get a 1200 watt pro PA amp and a mic, and stand back. I record and mix live drums for jazz concerts, and get away with input pads and sensitive overhead condensor mics. Now that's LIVE! Also note that small jazz combos are often completely unbalanced if not miked somehow, unless you sit in the middle of the band which isn't usually allowed even for Elizabeth. |
Is Walter Becker's (Steely Dan bass, guitar, writer) latest solo CD rock? Because I think it's sonically astounding, and perhaps a reference of sorts. Modern pop music producers might insist on high gain compressed sound because they think that's what people want, and that approach is controversial but shows up all over the place. Hippity Hop/Rap and Norwegian Death Metal don't cater to audiophiles anyway, nor do Miley Cyrus and any other "modern" pop things, but I have only a vague idea of what that stuff sounds like anyway as life is too short to waste listening to music I don't like. I listen to a lot of modern jazz from Jason Moran and Jon Scofield to Bad Plus, etc., and it is often of reference sound quality...only meaning the producer has caring ears. |
Weimaraner Beau? TMI. Also, how are we mere mortals to listen to anything on the same level as a person with "photographic memory of sound?" Although photos are silent, I get it. Luckily, I was blessed with photographic detection of bullshit. Or is it cursed? |
Note that most musicians are surprisingly clueless about sound mixing regardless of their talent as musicians. The good news is there are zillions of great sounding recordings to enjoy, and some are new...Also you really can't "train" engineers to do anything but know what knobs to turn as recording esthetic is more in the "talent" or "art" genes and that quality remains mysterious. Example: A very well regarded female singer/songwriter came to play at a concert I was mixing (I designed the system and had been mixing this monthly concert series for years), and brought along a young dude she trusted to mix for her (a few higher profile artists liked to do this, and I usually don't mind at all since they're usually fine)...this guy was amazingly incompetent in every way, although he claimed to be a professional studio engineer. NO idea how to use trim pots for mic balance, no sense of the room sound...man...and this resulted in our first show EVER where people thought the sound kinda sucked. The end. |
I think personal taste rules the day in this discussion. An analogy I think might be useful (or not) regards guitar amp speakers...the tonal coloration that exists with various brands becomes extremely important to a guitar player with any reasonable amount of experience, and I've found that taste changes and evolves usually. If a home hifi speaker seems to be delivering the goods in your system and YOU think it's great, other people's opinions should become moot. And I rarely use the word "moot." |
I refuse to stop picking on BO because it's too much fun, and he doesn't understand my posts anyway. |
Bo's response is, again, even if read closely, useless, if only because of his annoying disregard of the fact that people hear things differently. That is the Monkey Wrench of personal opinion that trumps all else in audio appreciation. Opinions of "different properties" is always subjective and that's what my guitar speaker analogy is about. All speakers have a "sound" of their own and nothing exists as a reference, since the nature of even acoustic sound isn't absolute since we all hear things in individual heads. Room correction is using somebody else's head by the way...and I'm fine with my own. Listen to one of my acoustic guitars with your face 10 inches from the soundbox...you think that's a reference? Hmmm...stick your head in my piano...same thing...I prefer the image my hifi gives me (if I'm not actually playing the instrument), because it feels right for me, and all the gizmo swapping bullshit would do is waste my listening time, although I can swap anyway if I feel it needs it, or I simply feel like it due to boredom and/or compulsion. I recently attended a Ricky Lee Jones show that was packed with emotion (and the sound at my local venue was actually good...better than usual), and this weekend mixed the live sound for a pile of world class veteran jazz dudes (with 2 astonishing female singers) doing a tribute to Billy Holiday. Even in a concert hall with dreadful acoustics, everybody got the emotion and I don't think anyone cared about the "sound"...except me since I was getting paid for that. |
What part of the "live event" is the reference? Certainly not what the musicians hear unless it's a string quartet sitting around in a circle. If you can't detect an oboe you might want to put the Kraftwerk away for a while. Most musicians would think most hifis that have been attended to and fussed over sound fine and seem accurate enough. I know a LOT of professional musicians, and most don't have "reference points" per se, and often they couldn't adjust a mix...some can, most don't care. Although it's rarely admitted to by audio freaks, you ARE just sitting around at home with your own toys, and that's fine. It's utterly obvious that actual live music makes you want your rig to sound good and if it does to you, you're there, but my main point is simply that there is no univeral standard that applies to taste. Except pianos...maybe...I love pianos...if acoustic pianos sound good on a hifi I'm happy. |
See? I mean really...there is too much here to not have fun with it. He competes and is supposedly a perfectionist in a subjective arena utterly lacking any motivation from selling anything, although he sells things for a living. The Dutch Mountains Messiah making the world a better place...*sniff*... |
I have a hot girlfriend, so it looks like it's you Mapman. |
