I love the stupidity world ! ( inluding mine). Stupidity is a lerning one that normally tells us what not to do or that the post can't help any one.
R.
How to choose an upgraded tonearm.
In two recent threads on selecting an upgraded cartridge, some of you suggested a new tonearm was in order. Since I’ve never chosen a new tonearm, I’m asking you all for some advice on how to do so for that future event.
My current turntable is a VPI Classic 2 with a VPI JMW 10.5i unipivot tonearm. A new Lyra Kleos MC cartridge is on order. I’ll likely be changing to a gimbal style tonearm. The rest of the system is Magico A3 speakers, a Luxman 507uX MkII integrated amp, a Marants Ruby CD player, and a Shunyata Hydra Denali power conditioner.
What price range should an appropriate tonearm for the Lyra Kleos be in, that would also be in keeping with the price point of my Classic 2, The Classic 2 was in the $3-4,000 range, as is the Lyra Kleos. I’ll be purchasing new, not used, and will not be upgrading any other equipment than the tonearm.
Pardon some rookie questions, but what attributes should I be looking for in a quality tonearm? Who are some of the better known manufacturers, and which models of theirs might be workable? Are there other alternative to either a gimbal or unipvot tonearm? Are tonearms generally interchangeable between different manufacturers turntables? And what improvements in sound quality might be gained by upgrading my tonearm?
Since this is all new to me, any other advice you might have about things to consider would be greatly appreciated and will help kick off my research. Thanks,
Mike
Showing 12 responses by rauliruegas
@skyscraper : " i do really like the VPI Classic 2...... I hate to think about changing it out .."
The whole issue tells that it's not what you think ( that could be wrong or rigth. ) but what you need what that Kleos needs. You bougth that cartridge because you want an overall higher/better quality room/system performance. Reading your posts in this and your other threads maybe the best for your " brain " calm is to listen your new cartridge for a while ( with out any VPI change. ) and to look for an opportunity to listen the Kleos in other system to know if it's valid for you a change of that VPI or just stay with. Through several posts in your threads you already have all options about, so just take your time and learn through your first hand experiences with your new cartridge. Just wait for it. before you could have a total mix-up with somany different posts.
R. |
Dear @skyscraper : " whereas I’m only in the minor leagues..." Well, problem is your knowledge level on the whole issue.
Look, today almost no one is looking to buy ( second/third hand. ) the VPI rig model you own that's out of production and as you leave that time goes on/pass your unit re-sale prices will and is lower and lower faster than you can imagine. In the other side your VPI tonearm is not a " desirable " one for any audiophile.
You are talking that over time buy the 4.5K VPI FB tonearm and this is up to you. Now, you get for 4K a new and way better TT/tonearm combination that works just fine with the Kleos and almost any other cartridge and that TT/tonearm is the Technics 1200G, way superior to what you own today and this could be your alternative not the FB. Again, is up to you.
R.
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Dear @mijostyn : Yes the SOTA is very good plattform for tonearms. The Rega RP-10 advantage is not only that for its quality level performance could be really a " bargain " item but that already was tested with Lyra cartridges with success. Anyway, looks as the op wants to stays sticky to the Classic, to each his own. Nothing wrong with that.
R. |
@skyscraper : Looks as you really did not care enough when you read it the Rega links because the price is 5.7 K not 7K that’s the price including Rega cartridge.
VPI TT/tonearm you own is really an entry level and normally not always: entry level audio item is in the lower part of the manufacturer item models and this means inside mediocrity/average level, its price tells you about. That Classic VPI TT can work with the Fatboy or any top tonearm you like but that it can work does not means is a good " place to mount the FB along the Kleos.
I don’t care what you could buy but you already bougth the Kleos and that specific cartridge model along top Lyra models were mounted in that " inexpensive " Rega plattform/tonearm with excellent results for experienced gentlemans that know about quality level performance . As M.Fremer they mounted too other top cartridges coming from Dynavector and Ortofon with the same success. I made it to you an stupid advise when posted of that " second pivot " that in reality is not a true pivot and that does not solve the VPI tonearm problem you have for that Kleos. Next is a Lyra " warning " in his site for its cartridges:
" tonearms with rigid bearing(s), " but when we go to better tonearms is critical the plattform/TT where we want to mount it for it works at its best and you have not that kind of plattform/TT. I think you need a new TT/tonearm for that Kleos if you want really enjoy the best that that cartridge can shows you.
Yes, I’m still think that not only my second pivot advise was stupid one but the stand alone arm pod for you it is too.
R.
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@skyscraper : " I’m thinking tonight about ways to pay for the expensive, easily retrofit gimbaled Fatboy. " "" know how those VPI gimballed Fatboys compare to any other tonearms in the $4500 price range. "" If you decide to go for that VPI I think is way better to go with an overall way better TT/tonearm as the Rega RP-10 for almost the same price of that VPI tonearm. Do it you a favor and re-read not only the linked reviews of the Rega but the Rega site information with the Stereophile M.Fremer review. Another advantage is that the Rega was reviewed with Lyra cartridges including the Kleos. With this alternative you could put on sale your Classic VPI TT/tonearm along the Ortofon cartridge.
In the other side good that you decided not to go behind that stupid stand alone arm pod advise.
Put your money where it counts.
R. |
@skyscraper : " I do need to learn about tonearms first, as I really know little to nothing about them. It might be hard to believe, and my wife never could, how much I enjoy engaging in the analysis part of any search or project, When I haven’t the disposable cash to make a new purchase.."
"" I am still curious about what sonic differences an arm can make...""
""" At the outset the last thing I was considering was a tonearm upgrade. """
"""" Maybe the dual pivot will help wring enough out of the Kleos with my current tonearm to make this a minor issue. """"
I think that because of what you said you can’t really learn about tonearm/T/cartridge intrinsecal relationship through a thread through " paper ", you just can’t. The information everyone already posted here ( including mine. ) only makes that you continue to have more and more questions and dudes. Every additional post on the Kleos/tonearm/TT issue in this moment goes against you and your today system:
""""" Can’t wait for the Kleos to arrive in about three months or so. """""
The only " fast " way you have to learn is with first hand experiences with same cartridge mounted in different tonearms . You have time to look how you can have those first hand experiences. It’s not easy because the room/systems where you need to have those first hand experiences needs in some way familiar to you or at least that you " understand " those room/systems different signatures. You have posts here that even gone to almost " stupid " advise for you as an external arm-pod when your needs are way different. Even you and certainly not me know for sure what you really need till the Kleos arrives .
Again, if you really want to " learn " ( as you said. ) the best for you as soon is posible is find out how to get those first hand experiences . I want that you know that you can’t be an " experienced " or even an average audiophile in that issue in 6 months when to many of us took " years " to learn about: YEARS not months. But even with all those first hand experiences you can’t really know how the Kleos will performs in your room/system and you will not know not only that but what the Kleos realy can shows you till in a different room/system than yours you can listen the Kleos quality level performance mounted in a good " rigth " room/system.
Unfortunatelly and as you accepted your really low know-how level impedes that you can assimilate our posts in the whole issue, you are not prepared to and it's not your fault.
R.
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@skyscraper : The Lyra cartridge M.Fremer used in his SAT review was not the Etna but the Atlas Lambda SL, go figure ! ! He used too another unique top cartridge that was the Ortofon Century.
R. |
Dear @skyscraper : Up grade the VPI tonearm to " dual pivot " and latter on think not to change the tonearm but the VPI TT/tonearm that in reality is an average/mediocre item. The posts here said talk of tonearms at around 5K and all those are good options but for a different TT.
You could think in this extremely well regarded and " inexpensive " TT/tonearm: the Rega RP10:
https://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/rega-rp10-turntable-tonearm https://www.tonepublications.com/review/rega-rp10-turntable/
Mr. M.Fremer review on the 80K+ turntable manufactured by SAT model XD1 he used the SAT 50K+ tonearm and mounted the Lyra Etna Lambda and in that SAT overall review M.Fremer posted: "" The XD1 shares some sonic characteristics with Rega’s revolutionary RP10 turntable: ultrafast, clean transients throughout the audible frequency range; tight, fast bass; revealing midrange transparency; and overall sonic stability and focus. All these characteristics result, apparently, from careful attention paid to structural rigidity and the removal or prevention of unwanted vibrational energy. As good as the P10 is, it’s not an SAT XD1. ""
and the RP10 set you back the ridiculous 5.5K dollars including the tonearm:
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R.
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