How is LAMM LP2 compares to the more recent phono

Thuchan, right now the only SUT I have on hand is an Ortofon T100 which works very well with Air Tight when I used it with other phono pre that I have. I will try it out and compare to Lamm MC input. However, I have no idea, in comparison to other SUTs, where the T100 is in term of performance, average, good, very good etc. But later on this year when I go to Hong Kong, I definitely will take a look at Audio Note.

Thanks for all the inputs so far. I did not realize about fixed MC input impedance. As of right now, I am using Ortofon T100 step up transformer with my cartridge so that should not be a problem but I do plan to run a second cartridge/arm and that might be a problem. Over here, there are local dealers that I can audition ARC, ASR, Asthetix, CJ, Pass, Audio Valve, EAR but other will be tricky to find. I have Koetsu and Air Tight cartridges currently which probably would work well with 400 ohms loading for MC but I will have to try first and see.

This is the confusing part for me. I looked at old Stereophile review and it did say that loading is 40 ohms. However, if I am not mistaken, the step up transformer inside LAMM is 20 db or 10x the gain which would make it natural impedance around 470 ohms.
At least the feedback so far is that they work well with Koetsu and Airtight which are the two cartridges that I own.
My LAMM dealer just got back from CES so hopefully I should get the LAMM phono to try out sometimes next week.

I wonder if anyone has tried Air Tight Step up transformer since it has 3 inputs with adjustable impedance. I wonder if that would match well with MM input on LAMM. There isn't much information on Air Tight SUT that I could find unfortunately.
My Koetsu is 0.3 mV, may be a tad too low for LAMM wihtout SUT.

Well, I tried Ortofon T100 today with Lamm MM input. The sound is richer, more saturated, bigger than with Lamm MC input. I thought Janzen is supposed to be very good as well but I do prefer Ortofon T100. Hmmmm..I wonder if Lamm is willing to make LP2 with just 2 MM input? :)

Mgottlieb, thanks for the input on Onyx. That's what I will be using as well.
Nolitan, have you compared EAR88PB to EAR324 by any chance?
I auditioned EAR 324 in my system awhile back and while it was nice, I was not impressed enough at the time to think it was worthwhile upgrading.

Thuchan, thanks for the comment. I was having problem with my equipments for awhile and was away for a bit so I have not had a chance to try LAMM phono yet but later on next week, my local LAMM dealer should bring over his phono for me try for awhile.

I am curious about changing the internal SUTs. By the middle of the year, I plan to have two cartridges/arms setup. One will go to SUT/MM input and the other go to LAMM internal SUT/MC intput. How good is LAMM internal SUT?

At the moment, I have Ortofon T100 SUT which I like very much but another SUT might be an option down the road. I heard a lot of good thing on Kondo SUT or perhaps Ypsilon MC-20 SUT. However, before considering channging another external SUT, should I be considering changing LAMM own's internal SUT first. Let say if 1:10 gain is not an issue, how is the sound in comparison to other SUT that you mention and what other SUTs had people used inside LAMM?

Thanks for your help.

Andromedaaudio and Thuchan, thanks for the advise. Duelund definitely sounds interesting. I had capacitors on my speaker crossover changed to Munsdorf before with excellent result. My local DIY/Mod guy talked very highly of Duelund as well but not very much experience around here due to cost but it could be interesting. WE 417A started to sound nicer and nicer. So far I am very happy with Lamm LP2 the way it is :)

Thuchan, I definitely am planning on trying different tubes LP2 and will use external SUT for sure.

I will most likely end up with 2 different turntables but kind of unintentionally. I am currently using VPI Classic with full upgrades. That will soon be replaced with a a new limited edition of VPI Classic that VPI is making for my local VPI dealer for their 20th anniversary (similar to VPI Classic 3 but with a bit more upgrades and additional bell and whistles). I already heard a prototype which is quite incredible. I actually preferred the prototype table with Dyna X20 over regular Classic with Mysonic (the gold one, forgot the name currently) when I compared both in the same systems at the local dealer. However, at the same time, I also really like TW Acoustic and think that both offer very different kind of sound. So I have been toying with the idea of having both VPI and TW Acoustic.

I wonder if it might be possible to disconnect the MC input from internal SUT so I can use two external SUTs :)

Thuchan, one more quick question on Audio Note Kondo SUT. Looking at Audio Note Kondo site, it does not really say anything much about the SUT nor any information such as turning ratio etc. I also looked on Agon and ebay and found Audio Note Kondo SUT that does not look anything like the one on Audio Note website.
http://www.audionote.co.jp/analog/index.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Audio-Note-AN-S4-Silvered-Former-MC-Step-up-Transformer-/320667800630?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa94a5436

I am a bit confused right now about which audio note is which. I understand that there is an Audio Note UK which is something different and not as good as well! So which Audio Note SUT do you actually recommend.

Thanks for the information. I will be in Hong Kong later on this year and will check out Audio Note Kondo there.

Thanks all for comment. I now am auditioning LP2 in my system. Although the unit has not been used in awhile, after a few hours, it is already quite impressive.
With my Air Tight cartridge, at 0.4mV, there is no problem using MC input at all, volume wise. On my Lamm L2 Reference preamp, volume knob is between 10-12 o'clock, mostly 10-11 (where as my Playback Design MPS-5 is at 9 o'clock most of the time). I think my Ortofon T100 would be rather loud with Air Tight in this particular setup.

Syntax, yes, I realized that the gain will be different between the MC input and MM/Ortofon. For now, gain is not an issue for me as I certainly has enough volume with Lamm MC input. While I did not level match both input when I listened, I tried to set volume level to where I am comfortable listening.

I know Thuchan prefere using external SUT over Lamm internal SUT, I would like to hear your impression and opinion on external SUT with Lamm as well if you have one. Thanks.

Quick question on tubes in LP2. Beside Western Electric 417A, is Amperex 5842 a worthwhile upgrade over stock Raytheon tube or should I not bother with that and go with WE 417A?
Thanks for your advise

Syntax, would you mind telling me what SUT you had Lamm installed in your LP2? I assume that Kondo KSK SFz did not make you cry means that it was SUT that you actually like? (not including the internal SUT that Lamm replaced for you). Eventually I will need both inputs as I plan to have at least 2 arms so I will need to go with one external SUT for sure.

Thuchan, I located some matched pairs WE 417A. Once Lamm phono is thouroughly burned in, I will try WE tubes and see how that go.

Thanks for all your help.

Blue_nose, I am not quite sure I understand you completely. Which 2 mediocre tables would that be, that I own?
I am in a process of upgrading all sorts of things which I already mentioned previously. For now I have one VPI Classic which will be replaced later on this year. Not many people have heard the new Classic 3. I believe HP has a prototype in his listening room that he mentioned briefly in Absolute Sound. I also heard a prototype at my local dealer which I like very much. The detail is not quite finalized yet but it may be possible to use other arm on Classic 3. At the moment, I am planning to get Reed tonearm with its arm pod to use temporarily with my VPI until I can get TW Acoustic Raven AC a few months later. I hope this is acceptable for Lamm.

Lewn, thanks for your comment. I know that some people on A'gon here keep complaining about VPI arm and it is difficult to really compare it to other arms. Since my Reed tonearm will arrive a few months before turntable, that's why I want to get the arm pod so I can try it on VPI table as well and see how different it would be from VPI arm. I agree with you though that with VPI Classic, it was not difficult to hear difference between ASR Mini Basis, Fosgate Signature phono and Lamm phono so far.

Lula, I only use Fosgate MM input with my SUT so far. I think Fosgate has more neutral presentation, a little less tube sound, if you like. Lamm has richer, thicker tone, a bit wider soundstage and more detail overall. The difference is not night and day especially after switching out stock tubes on Fosgate. I had Blackburn Mullard 12AX7 ong plate installed which improved the sound quite a bit. Fosgate is a bit more quiet however. Another good thing with Fosgate is that it has no problem working with solid state preamp. Before I switched to all Lamm electronics, I was using ASR Emitter II. It was rather hard to find tube phono that works well with ASR 10k input impedance.

I got 2 matched pairs of WE 417A from audiotubes.com and replaced Raytheon tubes with these. It has been only a few hours so far but I am impressed. Brent Jessee of audiotubes told me that they were all low microphonics. Lamm LP2 is certainly a lot more quiet now, pretty much on par with Fosgate. I also replaced stock fuse with Power House platinum fuse which helped a lot as well. The sound is clearer, better focus, slightly more open with out any loss of body or smoothness and better controlled bass but perhaps, I miss a bit of the lushness of the Raytheon.
Oh well... I need to burn the fuse and the tubes a bit more but I am very impressed.

I will keep Lamm in this configuration for awhile but I am curious about changing capacitors in Lamm. Not sure if I want to go down that road but just in case, I was told that Mundorf does not make caps as big as those that Lamm uses but somebody suggested V-Cap as a possibility. I wonder for those who have changed caps, what do you use?

Thanks all for the comments so far. So far I have been going back and forth between Ortofon T100 and built in Jensen on Lamm and Jensen unit is growing on me everyday.
As I said before, with Air Tight PC-1 Supreme, Jensen 1:10 provides me with adequate gain so no problem there. Soon I will be mounting a second arm. Not sure what will go there, most likely either Koetsu Onyx or Miyajima Kansui, both of which will require something a bit more than 1:10 SUT. My plan to go to Hong Kong and look at Kondo is going to be delayed a bit but wonder what other SUT would also match well with Lamm. A friend really likes Audio Tekne but it is rather difficult to find one currently. Lots of people are talking about Bob's Device, Hashimoto SUT etc, how are those compare to Kondo or other top SUTs. What other SUT should I be looking at? The rest of the system beside Lamm phono are Lamm L2 Reference, M2.2, mixture of Stealth and Synergistic Cable (slowly migrating from SR to Stealth but for now some Sakras, some SR Apex), Usher Be-20.

Thuchan, I wish you mentioned this earlier. After extended audition at home, I just told me dealer to go ahead and order a new unit for me but with 20:1 SUT. But I suppose since my local dealer loan a unit to me for several weeks, I should not get the unit elsewhere anyhow :)