How important is it for you to attain a holographic image?

I’m not clear on the nuances of sound stage vs holographic vs imaging. So based on that here is my uneducated experience in the matter:

Recent live rock show, small venue, speakers all over the place. No real sound stage or holography that I could perceive.

I hear people describe listening to their system and saying they can hear the distinct position of every musician. I can’t say I’ve had that experience with my system very often. At first that disappointed me. It doesn’t anymore.

With my system the sound stage has a shape. It is no higher than 8 feet. It sounds slightly wider than the room. Drums andback up singers often sound like they are at or slightly behind the speakers. Singers and lead instruments usually are out in front and between the speakers but usually not dead in the middle. This projects out into mid-room but not right up to my listening position which is of necessity a little farther from the speakers than I'd like. Sometimes there are sounds that sound like they are behind me but not regularly. All of this varies tremendously with the recording. With all 'good' recordings I hear separation between instruments regardless of where they seem to be in the room (my room).

It can all be re-shaped to some extent by speaker placement.

But at no time and with almost no recording does it sound like individual sounds are coming directly ’from’ or out of one of the speakers. The sound may be distinctly left of right but does not sound like it is piped out of the speaker.

That’s all I really need. When I sit and concentrate on where something is within the sound stage I find that I’m not enjoying the music. So I don’t do it since that is the opposite of the reason that I listen to music.

I said before that the idea of a ’holographic’ image is not all that important to me. But if I use that term, and maybe I use it wrong, that represents an image that has a near perfect representation of a projected realistic (sound) image. In other words that means to me : drums, 4 feet behind lead guitar and maybe a little behind the speakers, bass player 6 feet to the left, rhythm guitar 4 feet to the right, lead singer 8 feet in front of me and well in front of the speakers, voice 4.75 feet off the ground, lead singers just behind and to the left of the speakers.

I do not get that with my system. And I don’t think many recordings give that sort of image.

On the other hand, if the sound image was perfectly flat, or just in a big messy ball in the middle or if the music sounded like it was being piped out of my speakers like a hose, then yes, that would be a deal breaker.

As others have mentioned, even with a low end system I can usually get the speakers in the right place to at least have the sound in the middle and out in front of the speakers and with some hint of 3 dimensionality.

I think that as many have mentioned here it just depends on what you're after. I care nothing for "3D" movies and would never try to simulate that at home. I'm sure that with the right money, equipment, expertise and room that I could do it but why would I when I've seen the very best and didn't care for it?

The point is, it isn't sour grapes to decide that you don't want or need some holographic effect that, as had been mentioned, requires knowledge, money, equipment and expertise. The truth is, that sentiment does not just come from those who have never experienced it. There are audio critics who have heard the best there is to hear and still don't put it at the top of their list of criteria that are important to them. Just Google it.

And I think that is an inherent problem in the audiophile world. There is always this notion that someone has heard something that if everyone else could hear it they would love it and if they haven't heard it then they are claiming sour grapes. I like the grapes I can reach. I can acknowledge that the grapes I can't reach might be delicious but why make myself unhappy when I can't (or don't need to) reach them anyway?

@orpheus10 "Never quit trying to reach the grapes; we're "audiophiles", reaching for sweet audio grapes is what we do."

That does seem to be true of quite a few audiophiles here. That is not my cup of tea.

But I am new to this and by nature or nurture I also have a deep suspicion of 'progress' that has no ultimate goal. I do not see this hobby as a pursuit unless you include pursuing good recordings. When I listen to my system it pushes all the buttons I need to have pushed. I've done some basic room testing, etc and things check out okay. The sound quality makes me smile and sometimes gives me chills. The sound stage is reasonably large and defined. So at this point rather than seeking (= time+money) for that something extra, I'll enjoy the sweet grapes I have. Some might call that settling. And maybe it is. But in this field I suspect that there are those that would say that in some fashion or another you are settling as well. Who knows.

And again, its not sour grapes. I bet that high hanging fruit is wonderful.

And to be honest if I was going to invest that time and money there are other aspects of SQ that I would probably pursue before sound stage improvements. For me tight, clear bass would be the thing that could turn into an obsession.......if I let it.

@orpheus10 said "You guys are funny; while you're enjoying what you have, your subconscious is reaching for the grapes; "I wonder how I can get better bass", or some other refinement."

No incongruity there at all. I never claimed that I don't wonder about things. I never claimed that I had the best system in the world. I never claimed my system had no flaws. I never said that I wouldn't seek any sort of improvement. What I'm saying is that some of us have the ability to be satisfied with what we have and to control impulses that will likely only account for small, incremental improvements as well as enough risk aversion to avoid spending money on 'improvements' that might end up being detrimental. 

And again, this is about sound stage. Spending money to get improvements other than sound stage means sound stage isn't my addiction of choice. That's all.

Again, I'm not knocking anyone for whom that .01% improvement is worth a week's vacation some place nice. That is their business not mine. Its all entertainment after all.

@orpheus10 said "N80, mentally, I will never settle; it's just that my bank account has put the brakes on."

In the end that's still settling. And if you're not willing to eat Ramen seven days a week and walk to work for your hobby....well, what can I say?  ;-)

The point is that we all have reasons for how far we push things. And it really isn't our position to question someone else's.....especially when they have the real prize, the best grapes of all: great music and contentment.

@orpheus10 So you are saying that great soundstage is the end product of what everyone is after in regard to hi-fi audio? That seems odd....since not everyone here agrees with you. Maybe they should have their high end audiophile cards revoked.

But then I guess there is the possibility that some of us.....maybe even me.....have great "holographic soundstage" and just don't get all that excited about it? 

Nah.

@orpheus10 " Without a shadow of a doubt, the most desirable aspect of high end audio is "The Holographic sound stage",

I’ve read a number of articles about this by high end audio critics who do not agree with that.

" Realism is not oversold, but it is very hard to achieve"

Define realism. It certainly isn’t what a sound engineer captures in a specialized studio where electronic music is recorded, usually on different tracks and often at different times and in some cases in different locations. Especially when virtually all of those tracks are altered after being recorded.

" Do you realize that it is impossible not to have these things, and at the same time to have "holography"."

I get that. But you can have all these things without what you call holography. And it appears that in that scenario there exist plenty of high end users who simply don't put holography as their primary goal or source of enjoyment.

Seems hard for you to get past that.