How do you determine how much to spend on speakers

Audiolabyrinth, I wish I could weigh in on your last post, but cannot because I have no data except some limited anecdotal experiences. But my gut tells me you're right.

As general matter, I think hype and puffing contribute a considersable amount to the cost of audio. I recently posted some comments about what I perceive to be hype and puffing regarding the ARC line, particularly with respect to some of its newest and latest additions.

For example, ARC just released the new Ref 10 linestage carrying an MSRP of $30K. Yet just last year or so, ARC released a limited addition Ref Anniversay 40, carrying a MSRP of $25K that was supposed to be the "be all-end all" of line stages.

Now here's a laugh. ARC says that it learned a lot about new technologies and so forth from the Ref 40 and upgraded its Ref 5 linestage to incorporate many of these new technologies. The upgraded Ref 5 SE is hyped to be 85+% of the Ref 40, all for half the Ref 40's MSRP price. I'll let you know. I'm sending my Ref 5 to the factory next week for the SE upgrade for the "ridiculously" low cost of $2500.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm a big time ARC fan, but how many times can the newest product be "in another league" compared to its predecessor?? Sooner or later they're gonna run out of leagues.

Ok, back to this thread -- speakers. Speaker costs are all over the place. Sometimes there's a correlation of cost to quality, but not always.

Here's another laugh that almost resulted in the tar and feathering of the editors of a couple of well recognized audio magazines. My speakers, the Paradigm Signature 8 v3, were hyped by the editors of these mags to be the best speakers of 2011 and #7 in the line-up of best speakers of all time. Owners of Wilsons, Magicos and the like exploded. The S8s have a MSRP of $9k, compared to Magico Q5s having a MSRP of over $150+K. Forget Wilsons, they're a bargain compared to top of the line Magicos.

How can this possibly be??? Read some of my other posts --it's all about Econ 101 (economies of scale, volume sales, elimination of middlemen, in-house R&D, verticle integration, etc), hype, puffing and snobbery.

In the meantime, I may look like the poor cousin to many of my audiophile colleagues -- but guess what, I have a kick ass system.

So, my advice to the OP (if still relevant) and others is be smart consumers. Spending more bucks doesn't necessarily correlate to better or best gear.

Well that's the end of my Friday night audiophile ruminations.

Bruce

IMO:
1) Speakers contribute more to the character of a system than do the other components (maybe exception = cartridges).

2) Amplifier technology is much more mature than digital front end technology. A quality amp will please for many years. Digital is outdated much more quickly.

3) A budding audio hobbiest may not be atuned to his/her preferences regarding characteristics of a system.


Given the above and a budget of 5K, one reasonable suggestion might be to set 30-40% of budget aside for speakers. Split the remainder to an integrated amp ~30%, digital front end ~30% (maybe less depending on type}, and the remaining 10% for cables. Purchase the amp, front end, cables and a lower budget pair of speakers (eg. B&W685 at $650 retail) setting the remaining funds aside for future speaker purchase. Enjoy this system while exploring the speaker market and identifying the system character that most pleases. Once identified, upgrade speakers to satisfy. There are simply to many quality 1.5 - 2K speaker systems to judge, all sounding quite different. In putting this system together, remember that the room is a most important component and interacts with speakers to a great extent.

I think Mesch makes some good points but I would go even further. Starting off with some cheap speakers before taking the plunge on the "final" choice is worth considering but I would consider spending $3500 on the final speakers because I believe speakers are 90% of the sound. I used a $300 CD player and $400 integraded with $16,000 Revel Ultima2 speakers (bought used)and it sounded great. Later using a Pathos $3000 integrated amp the sound improved for sure but not as much as you would think and then using a $6500 amp, I achieved a very slight improvement, as well using adding a $1000 OPPO CD/SACD player. Don't put money into expensive electronics or cables. And speaker placement is of utmost importance in getting the sound you paid for. Buy used when you can and get the sound for 1/2 price.

All of this stuff is, at times, mind numbing. First let me say that I am not an audiophile. I can't afford to be. I have too many money pitts that I'm throwing money into to even consider a system costing $10K or more.

I am of the obsessive/anal sort about some things. I always read the instructions and can't cook a meal without the use of a measuring cup. In other words, I'll always use a formula (if given the opportunity) because using a formula is suppose to get you to a desired result.

This just doesn't seem to work with audio gear. I believe trying to assign a percentage of your budget to speakers will likely not get you where you want to be.

I agree that speakers are more responsible for what you hear than any other component. Of course, I'm not saying that upgrading from $100 pre amp to a $1000 pre amp won't get you noticeably better sounding music, but I am saying that when when comparing a $1K NAD to a $1K Rotel, the differences likely won't be like night and day.

On the other hand, when it comes to speakers, I think that each brand (and even models within the brands' lines) have a distinctive sound that you will either like or not like.

I think that you should find a pair of speakers that will sound good in your listening environment and just don't assume that more expensive speakers will sound better in your home.

For what it's worth, I think that you should put a limit of $2500 for speakers. With the other $2500, you can get into a good preamp, amp and source. If you can find speakers that cost less than $2500 that you really like, all the better.

As your system and wire gets better so do the way the speakers sound.

Small equipment and speakers can focus more quality into less, the bigger the speakers typically the bigger the power has to be. Small quality power can drive smaller high quality speakers.

Integrated sets can keep the money in the electronics instead of the wire if you aren't going to want to spend on good wire.

Look for one of the sleeper CD players at around $500, they're out there, especially used.