How come Horn + woofer designs are not more popular?


A couple guys on my audio discord really love the JBL synthesis 4367 and feel that all traditional 3 way tower speakers suck because they have poor bass response and are generally shy sounding. What I wonder is how come the majority of speaker makes do floor standers that are 3 way as oppose to the Horn +woofer design of JBL?

Is there any downsides to the horn + woofer design? Can a horn convey microdetail as well as a Be tweeter like say from magic A or S line? They claim 3 way floor standers are just trendy. But is there anything more to it then that?
smodtactical

Mijostyn wrote: "there is a compromise in a two way horn system that is difficult to get around. You either have to run a woofer up into the midrange or make a very large horn to get down to where most woofers do well."

Done right, I don’t think there is any compromise to performance.

I’d like to address two myths about prosound-type woofers, such as might be found in a horn system:

First, people mistakenly think big woofers are inherently "slow" because of the cone size, when in fact a good prosound woofer has such a powerful motor that its motor-strength-to-moving-mass ratio is competitive with, and often superior to, small high-end midwoofers (5" Scan-Speak Revelator and Illuminators, for example). The 10" prosound woofer I’m working with at the moment has a motor-strength-to-moving-mass ratio competitive with a 5" Scan-Speak mid.

Second, people think a big cone cannot have a smooth response. The truth is that the accordion surrounds on prosound woofers do a better job of damping cone breakup than half-roll surrounds do, such that plus or minus 1 dB before EQ is possible up to the crossover region on a studio-quality pro woofer, and without nasty spikes in the response north of the crossover region. (For example, look at the Eminence Kappalite 3015 and imagine crossing it over a 1 kHz... the woofer Peter Noerbaek uses in the speaker linked in his post is in that same ballpark).

And here are some of the advantages of a using a good prosound woofer in a horn system:

- Because the large cone has a relatively narrow pattern in the crossover region, if the speaker designer so chooses, it is easy to match the woofer’s pattern with the horn’s in the crossover region. This is virtually impossible to accomplish with cones ’n’ domes. The result is, a good horn hybrid speaker (meaning horn + direct radiator woofer) can have an audibly seamless crossover.

- The relatively narrow pattern of a big woofer + horn system means that less off-axis energy is going into early reflections. According to researcher David Griesinger, early reflections are the ones most detrimental to clarity, so this characteristic of horn systems promotes clarity.

- If the designer chooses to use a constant-directivity horn, the reflections will have nearly the same spectral balance as the first-arrival sound, which promotes natural timbre and freedom from listening fatigue.

- Prosound type drivers are free from compression effects in a home audio application, which is not true of most moderate-efficiency high-end drivers. Musicians use dynamic contrast to convey emotion, so a good horn speaker conveys the emotion in the music better than most conventional speakers.

- Many horn speakers are compatible with specialty tube amps, such as Output TransformerLess (OTL) and Single-Ended Triode (SET) types.

- Set up properly, you can actually get a wider sweet spot with a good horn system than with any other type I am aware of.

The inevitable tradeoffs are large enclosures (lower WAF) and less low-end extension than a comparably-sized speaker of lower efficiency.

For those who think modern horn systems still have coloration issues, but are open-minded enough to do a little reading, you might google "JBL M2" or "Dutch & Dutch 8c". The speakers Peter Noerbaek linked to are essentially a hot-rodded version of the M2, and imo they are magnificent.

Duke

Poorly designed horns sound shouty. Many good horns do as well until you add some damping material to them. I can’t understand why manufacturers don’t do this. I have designed and modified many speakers over the last 40 years. Every speaker design type can achieve excellent performance. JBL and Klipsch are good out of the box, but can become exceptional with a little work. 
Good grief. Opinions are like belly buttons. 

If if you like the sound of horns, crank em up, sit back and enjoy them with a cocktail. If not, crank up your domes, or planar speakers, or whatever floats your boat. You too can enjoy a cocktail.

Enjoy the long weekend gents, and take a moment to reflect on the reason for the holiday. 
Does anyone ever listen to music anymore, or are you thinking about the hardware you use to recreate the musical moment too much? Other than junk thrown together with no knowledge at all, most good systems do a great job of retaining the UNKNOWN mix information locked into the great number of recording methods known and now used as inputs to these "magical" boxes called music systems. I was born before Pearl Harbor into a family who used a Brook 10-C3 and an RCA LC-1A 15" duo-cone speaker before there were any stereo systems (or binaural). Music still sounds good, regardless of how old I get. Give this a thought... nothing is perfect, especially the initial recordings (and yes, I owned a recording studio). It's all good, if you think about it.
For many years, most every Radio Shack store across the country had a pair of Realistic Mach model horn speakers playing in the front of the store. Big and impressive looking but the worst sounding shoutiest Radio Shack Realistic brand speakers ever. I could not stand them no matter how hard I might try to like them. This alone gave horns a bad name for me and many "audiophiles" I suspect. That and the many commercial setups out there that are mediocre at best by "audiophile" standards. I still hear one of those at my gym most every day.

Mass exposure to bad horns has biased many I suspect. Gives the good ones a bad name.

Maybe those Realistic horns would have sounded better with a tube amp.....

Also did I mention that this kind of speaker tends to be big and heavy and most likely fewer people than ever want to have to deal with them these days?

I’m not saying they are bad.....some these days like the newer Klipsch are quite good and even reasonably affordable, just pointing out the reasons why they are not "popular" as asked. One could even argue that the entire modern Klipsch line IS pretty popular. You see them everywhere possible these days and they get a fair amount of press coverage.....just not here.

Also I gotta point out that most products popular here are NOT very popular as a whole....very few people overall own most of the products that get a lot of attention here. High end is "high end".....not "popular" in general.  Klipsch Heritage line might be one exception to that.