Trelja -
Interesting post and information. One question - were these blind tests, or did the musicians know which cord they were using? If they did . . .
Cheers,
Jordan |
Just read the white papers on the vansevers website. This guy could give the Brothers Grimm a real run for their money.
JHunter |
Brulee, HDM -
If folks feel that aftermarket power cords improve the sound, OK! However, the ability of the senses to be mislead is legendary and I'd bet big bucks that's what is happening for most people who honestly feel that the PC makes a difference, other than instances of too-small cords or RFI issues. In the end, though, all that really matters is your enjoyment of the sound.
The people I have an issue with are the rip-off artists (either ignorant, just plain greedy or both) putting these kilobuck wastes on the market in the first place.
JHunter |
Albert -
You're being somewhat inconsistant in that you talk about reduced "lag time" from so-called better cords, while complaining about stevemj's analogy only filling the tank faster. But you're exactly right when you say that this should have no effect on final performance.
RFI, that's another story. And one that's ended with a few bucks worth of ferrites.
JHunter |
Gumby -
Could you be so kind as to identify whoever stated that current demand is constant - I've never seen anyone say anything like that, and it would be a ridiculous statement in any case.
But strangely, while you agree (correctly) that the original cord delivers sufficient current you seem to imply that it also "chokes the power supply". This seems inconsistant, to say the very least. Could you point out some specific components that cannot draw adequate current through the orignal cord? I'm most eager to find out which vendors won't spend the few dollars on a cord of sufficient guage.
By the way, how many people can identify different cords in a well-designed objective test (barring too-small cords or RFI issues)? In the past few days on rec.audio.high-end, a gentleman who generally falls in the so-called "subjectivist" camp scrapped an article on PCs because he could find no difference.
JHunter |
Kitch29 -
Your lack of knowledge of science, electronics, audio, the definition of a theory, EVERYTHING that you mention in your diatribe is so staggering as to be beyond comprehension. The number and magnitude of fundamental errors in your post is truly frightening.
You'd be wise to take a beginning science or engineering course, and get at least a modicum of understanding (rather than just pretending to) before spewing forth as you just did. It's really quite embarrassing.
Sadly,
Jhunter |
Gregm -
We're all suggestable to a very great degree. It's important to understand what purely AUDIBLE differences in components exist, and I really don't understand why people are so very reluctant to examine components in a sound-only context.
I proposed a listening challenge for power cords that was pretty much a win-only proposition for those willing to participate. So far, for whatever reason there are no takers although that likely is due to geographic constraints (I'm in the San Jose, CA area; some Southern CA folks indicated an interest and we're trying to set something up). Or it could be that people don't want to find out that the Emporer has no clothes.
That being said, if people enjoy their system better knowing that they have broken-in 4 gauge PCs, more power (!) to them, I guess.
Cheers,
JHunter |
Albert -
Your test description was certainly picturesque! ;-)
I'm sure that you already know, however, that a blind test only means that the identity of the object under test remains unknown. That's ALL that I'm looking for, and still honestly, honestly don't understand why people are reluctant to evaluate components in this fashion. I have no desire or intent to diminish anyone's listening enjoyment, and think that even a cursory reading of my postings here would show that.
Also, why do you feel that I don't think that audio "tools" are important? Ignoring your comment regarding my hearing abilities (unwarrented and unfair, please!), I feel that there are a great many things that can be done to change the sound of a system. Room acoustics and speakers clearly have a huge impact, front end (especially analog) and amps may have an impact as well although much smaller IMO. Speaker cables and interconnects should not have any effect in most cases and PCs bring up the rear (confirmed to me, at least, when I've listened blind; I've heard all sorts of things during sighted evaluations).
I'd be sincerely happy to join you for a listening test, and as an amateur classical musician would be eager to meet someone at the Grammy-level. It'd be fun regardless of the outcome. I'll let you know the next time I come out to Dallas (it's been 1-2x/year typically, but hard to know with a new job) and let's see if we can set something up.
JHunter |
Jcbtubes - Have you bothered to read the PC challenge? Judging from your post, clearly not, yet for some reason feel the need to expound upon it - and upon me personally ("closeminded and lazy", you said). Your comments are insulting and ludicrous. Let's check the facts - while you might not care, others are perhaps interested: "You wish that others go out of their way to accommodate YOU". The ONLY restriction I placed was for the test to be local; I've a family (and a life) and was unwilling to jump on a plane and spend a couple of days traveling. Since I live in the 5th largest metropolitan area in the United States, that limits it to a population of roughly 7 million people. Sorry if you consider that unreasonable. ". . . at least put forth the time to take Brulee up on his offer". If you'd even skimmed through the PC Challenge thread you'd know that Bruce, others and I have discussed this . You would also know that we are planning on getting together at a time when it's mutually convenient. I'll be down in LA pretty frequently, although June doesn't work out well for Bruce. Sorry if our getting together in a month or two isn't fast enough for you. You wouldn't know that Bruce and I have discussed my trying some of his PCs. The first wouldn't work, as my rack doesn't allow inflexible cords to be easily inserted but he's looking for another. That I'll try.
"Stop complaining that more people aren't willing to put themselves out . . .". In my post I said that the lack of participation was most likely due to geographic constraints - an acknowledgement, not a complaint.
". . .for what will amount to simply your benefit". Let's see - I'm willing to put up $500 with ABSOLUTELY NO POSSIBILITY of any financial gain, as you'd know if you'd read the challenge. How can you possibly feel that's to my benefit, simply or otherwise?
JHunter |
Jadem6 -
I agree that your results are interesting indeed. Not a blind experiment so from a purely audible sense the results aren't valid (you might possibly have unintentionally given some clue as to what was happening, maybe not), but the tests do give some meaningful information. Could you tell us (and I apologize if you've given this info before) what your aftermarket cables are?
Also, it would be extremely interesting for you to try this test again - this time without switching the cables, even though you say you are?
JHunter |
Albert, Jcbtubes -
My system, while not ultra-high end, is quite enjoyable and pretty revealing:
Pioneer 525 DVD/Marantz CD63 mkII feeding an MSB Link DAC III;
Plinius 8150 integrated amp (w/apologies to Redkiwi's countrymen, this might be the weak link in the system);
Dunlavy SM-1.
Pretty nice sounding, but if anybody wants to send me a really good subwoofer I'd certainly not object! By the way, there's no lack of aftermarket PCs in the area. Within 15 miles of home, there are 6 bona-fide high end stores and a couple of mid-fi stores with a smattering of better stuff. At one store, you could listen to the $85k Dynaudio Evidence with a Krell Master Reference sub. They also had the Krell Master Reference amps; I think this is what led to the power crisis in California!
Cheers,
Jhunter |
Albert, Jadem6 -
OK, I'll bite. Could you two get together and figure out, say, 2 cords the most likely to differ from stock? I'm willing to listen to them, first sighted and then blind, and will report back the results (and return the PCs, maybe . . .). Might have a chance to pick up a PC from Bruce, but would like to keep the total to a reasonable number.
Cheers,
Jhunter |
Albert -
Thanks for setting this up; I'll contact you separately with the details. It'll be interesting and educational; of course, I run the fairly high risk of ridicule from one side or the other depending on the findings. Either I'll be accused of terrible hearing (if I don't hear anything) or improper testing (if I do). I'll do my best to insure that neither is the case, but it will have meaning for me irrespective of the outcome.
Cheers,
JHunter |
I've recently completed my PC test - results posted in a new thread.
JHunter |
Don't you think you guys are going over the line re: 702? You might disagree with him, but this evaluation of his motives, interests, personality is really uncalled for. |
