How can I tell if I need a better clock for my DAC?


I was interested in the responses to a related post by leemaze this week, saying that a Synchro Mesh was a good way to improve a DAC with subpar jitter.  I have a Cambridge CXU, with an inboard DAC; how could I determine how much jitter it has? 
cheeg

Showing 7 responses by melm

In response to the OP, jitter never goes away; in the best DACs it is reduced to a minimum. The best way to keep jitter to a minimum is to see that your component has one of the high quality, high specification, clocks. If it doesn’t, sell it and buy one that has a great clock. At the moment the best clocks used in very high quality consumer units are referred to as a femtoclocks with about 80 femtoseconds of jitter.*  At least one manufacturer, Wyred4Sound, makes a femtoclock available as an upgrade to existing DACs. Reports are that the clock change alone makes for better SQ.

That being said, there seems to be little doubt that the quality of the incoming digital signal (jitter, noise) will affect the amount of correction the DAC has to do and so affects SQ. That’s why, for example, some disk players can sound better than others feeding the same DAC, and why some use reclockers in front of their DAC.

As to whether you need a better clock, that's hard to say.  Do you need better SQ?  Will your associated equipment allow a better clock's effect to be heard?  How critically do you listen?  Can you afford?  No one can answer for you.

*There are more accurate clocks but they are used in the space and defense industries and are very, very expensive.
The issue posed by the OP was about a better clock.  So my response was about clocks.

At the current state of the art, a femtoclock, while not a sufficient condition is IMO a necessary condition to the best possible SQ.

Also, generally speaking, if a maker implements a femtoclock, chances are the rest of the unit compliments it.  In other words, it's a good sign of quality . . . generally.  If Steve N. wants to provide exceptions that he knows of, I'm all ears.
I suppose my response was an "all things being equal" one.  Of course if the rest of the circuit is screwed up, the best jitter clock in the world will be of little use.  So I assumed the circuit was otherwise competently designed and executed.  

A good example of the importance of the clock in an otherwise pretty well designed circuit is the optional upgrade to the femto clock by Wred4Sound.  Apparently the improvement is SQ is undeniable just by going to a better clock.

Yes, "a good oscillator (clock) is a good start".  Without a good start, you have nowhere good to go.  So what is this argument about?

I'm not here to show off what I know about bad circuits.
Here is a video I often recommend with a simple explanation of what can go wrong with a digital signal fed into a DAC. It includes the topic of jitter. While discussing the signal passing into the DAC, its principles can also apply to the signal within the DAC unit.  Please let us know if this helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grzoqEb2KMk&t=2s
By my standards, the Cambridge is a fairly expensive (and well-reviewed) unit, but the sound it gives to a Redbook CD doesn’t compete with that of my more modest phono (Technics SL-D2 with a Nagoka MP-110). Can I expect to get comparable sound quality with a CD player and DAC, without spending well over $1000, or is this the unavoidable result of the 44/16 format?

A confirmed analog guy, I have learned, but only within the past year, that Redbook CD can be as good (if not exactly the same) as a very good vinyl set-up. With more consistency as well as the usual digital advantages, digital has come a long, long way.

I also learned a long time ago that "well reviewed" in the audio press means practically nothing. Better to spend some time and energy on the forums. This one and head-fi and computer audiophile, for ex.

I did 2 things that brought my CD listening to a higher level than I ever thought possible. One cost a bit of money; one cost me nothing.

First I sourced a high performing DAC* directly from China. Not very expensive from my point of view, but still just a bit more than you may want to spend. But I think one can do well for less. Second, rather than use a CDP, I ripped all of my CDs to a portable hard disk which I had hanging around and played them through my (also hanging around) laptop directly into the DAC (easiest if the DAC has a USB input). Sound is better than using my Oppo to play disks through the new DAC.  Also, using JRIver I can control my digital listening entirely from my phone.

*And yes it has a femtoclock, in fact three of them.
My DAC is an LKS MH-DA004. There’s a thread about this DAC on this forum. Owning a Chinese DAC is a bit of an adventure, but worth it IMO. I believe there are other Chinese DACs out there for less money that also offer extraordinary value. It’s definitely the road less traveled though.

As for ripping CDs and getting better SQ, I think my experience is shared by many others. Your CDP has a severe limitation in that it does not support asynchronous USB, usually evidenced by a USB "b" port . See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBLto-DlGJo You might also look here and in the PC Audio forum for advice in getting improved SQ from ripping.
@cheeg,

Installing a better clock in your CXU would likely be cost prohibitive. Also, there's no telling if the rest of the CXU circuitry would reveal what a new clock would offer.  If you want better digital performance then you get from the CXU, better to sell it and start over.  Or you can begin by adding a separate DAC and using the CXU as a CD front end.