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How are you hearing no difference?

In my experience, I've never heard two pre-amps that sound exactly the same, nor two DACs that sound the same, nor two amps...etc. Yet, occasionally someone will claim that they heard no difference between Product A and Product B in their system.  I find it difficult to believe.
4hannons

Showing 5 responses by cleeds

cleeds
6,072 posts
 
bigjoe
... 1st off Agon isn't going to allow any peer reviewed white papers to be posted that disprove 90% of audiophile snake oil ...
I think you are mistaken. I've never seen any indication that Audiogon limits content in the fashion you describe.

Of course, I'm not aware of any "peer reviewed white paper" that would disprove 90 percent of audiophile snakeoil.

Can you provide any evidence of either of these claims, bigjoe?
cleeds
6,072 posts
 
n80
I do not think it would be that difficult at all to design a randomized, double blinded study for audiophiles. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a little complex but it wouldn't be hard.
It's fairly easy to design such a test, but it is a real challenge to actually conduct such a test if you want it to be scientifically valid. It's a tedious and laborious undertaking on the parts of all, including the test subjects. 
The issue is who would need such a test and why. I do not think it is useful for an individual audiophile for whom the only determinant is "what do I like better". 
Agreed!
cleeds
6,072 posts
 
brf
Hearing, just like the rest of our senses can be refined and educated over a period of time.
Quite so! In fact, when professionals conduct blind listening tests, they commonly begin with some training to help the subjects know what to listen for.
cleeds
6,072 posts
 
guidocorona

Listening with just your ears does eliminate the effect of psychoacoustics quite plenty if you are totally blind ...

This is mistaken and a common misnomer. It is impossible to listen "with just your ears." Just as with vision, what we perceive is determined as much by our brain as it is by the physical hearing mechanism. There is simply no way to completely eliminate psychoacoustic phenomenona from a listening test. Those who completely reject scientific blind listening tests - and I’m not one of them - often cite that as a flaw in blind testing. It’s a valid point, but doesn’t completely discredit the value of such testing, imo.

... ask the in-store consultant not to tell you which one of the several amps, or preamps, or players, or cables, etc... in the lineup you are listening to ...

If you want a meaningful blind test, it has to be double-blind. And there’s more to it than that; to be scientific, you need to match levels, and you need to provide quick switching while also allowing the subject to listen for as long as he likes to each DUT, such as is provided in the abx protocol.

Conducting a valid, double-blind, scientific listening test is a tricky business. And even when properly conducted, it’s easy to misinterpret the results. For those reasons and others, I believe that audiophiles have very little practical use for blind listening tests.


cleeds
6,072 posts
 
mzkmxcv
If you did demo blind, you’ll find a $500 DAC and a $2500 DAC (assuming cream of the crop for their price points) are not going to sound dissimilar. 
That's quite possible. Many poorly-conducted blind listening tests obscure audible differences between the devices under test. Conducting a scientifically valid, double-blind listening test is trickier than it might seem.
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