I have heard many excellent horn systems in my years, and truly appreciate the full range horns ( into the sub region ) the most. Phusis knows of what he speaks. Stringreen, I think I should jump on a Vandersteen thread, and mention : of all of the Vandersteens I have owned, sold, and set up for clients, over the years, I managed to get them to sound stage, etc, very well, but they were all very limited in the dynamics department, and other characteristics as well. It has been my experience, that a good horn system, set up properly, can create a wonderful image, sound stage, etc., creating a very believable performance, with all genres of music. Pianissimo and Fortissimo. Musical words used to describe dynamics. Music contains dynamics. Horns do this best. Other words of interest and importance, for excellent music reproduction, besides Dynamics : Tone; Timbre; Pitch; Rhythm; Tempo; Beat & Meter; Harmony; Melody; Texture; Coherence, and I am sure I am leaving things out. Sound staging and imaging is a by product of all of this, and if it is on the recording, it will come through in spades. An accurate, realistic system, should do it ALL. Enjoy ! MrD. |
AG Trio XD system.....5 Lascalas and some horn subs... |
I agree, the Trios are in a different league above the other AGs. But I disagree about them working in a small room. My experience with them ( my buddy owned them, he was the Jadis importer at the time ), tells a different story. Listening too close to them, they lost coherence, and did not stage well. Moving them to a larger room, creating greater distance between them and us, the listeners, they disappeared. We also had set up a pair of the AG powered subs, and it was awesome. |
It is interesting that John Inlow appreciates 1 inch drivers as well as 2 inch drivers ( determining horn throat size, of course ), feeling both are superior for different kinds of music, and playback levels. |
@willgolf, with regards to the design of your new home, will this music room be a " dedicated " listening room ? A few examples are : dedicated and upgraded electrical, greater wall reinforcement, room acoustic panels, etc. As in real estate : location, location, location. As in audio systems / music reproducing systems : the room, the room, the room. Horn systems have a benefit of creating less side wall reflections, but reflections, slap echoes, bass modes / resonances ( nodes and antinodes ) will all be present, if not dealt with. Obviously, once the speakers are in the room, and the system is set up, fine tuning the speakers location, to the room, and to your listening seats, will likely take some time. Expect some issues, and I am just trying to help, with such a big expenditure. I hope, for your benefit, you have considered this with your room " design ". Think about driving your car on nothing but cobblestone roads ? Just something to think about, if you haven't. Enjoy ! MrD. |
With all the blah blah blah presented by jsautter, in his 200 posts, he does not mention what speakers he owns. I am sure they are wonderful, but, probably a speaker not for everyone. Let’s have it, jsautter ? Let us know what your " benchmark " is, considering, a perfect speaker, does not exist, always having trade offs. |
@jsautter I heard your speakers several years ago at a show. Very nice. Incredible build quality, and the first horn loaded ribbon ( tweeter ) I have ever seen, or heard. I very much understand why you have them, but, still not my cup of tea, nor do I feel they were worth 40K. YMMV. As far as the large horns spoken about by johnk, ridiculous for the majority of living rooms most of us listen in. A quote from a recent Stereophile review on the Forte !!!s : " Horns have the rare ability to reproduce the note - perfect timing, rhythmic energy, and blood - pulsing impact of the real event ". " With their high sensitivity ratings and low power requirements, horns deliver music faster, with jumpin’ jiminy dynamics at practically every volume level ". Could not have said it better. What many " hybrid " horn systems lack, imo ( and this is a quality I appreciate from many years of listening to other types of speakers, such a Vandersteen, Thiel, Wilson and others ), is this thing called " coherence ". My Lascalas ( tweaked and modified ) do this with uncanny, breathtaking honesty. The bass horn, mid horn and treble horn all work together, unlike, say, a pair of Altec 19s, which are an excellent, competitive speaker with the Lascala ( I owned a few pair in my years ), but have a substantial disconnect between woofer, and the horn. My ears are very sensitive to this. Keep in mind, I would rather own a pair of 19s, over a pair of Vandersteen 3s, whatever series. I just like horns, and have, for over 50 years, and I thank PWK, and his early, and still, excellent designs, for this. Lastly, johnk states he can come up with a killer system for about 2K, being superior to other horn speakers at that price level. I admire and respect johnk, just from the readings here, but I would love to see the plans on this design. I also need to say this. I do not know what speakers willgolf will wind up with, but, based on his " regular " room he has in mind for this 2 channel rig, I doubt, based on years of experience, and listening, that his expensive system, will not be able to bring " me " any more listening enjoyment, than my current rig. I do wish him luck, and I am sure, he will be very happy, as at least, he will own horns. Enjoy ! MrD. |
RIAA, this quote I repeated, by the reviewer, Ken, was made prior, to his review of the Fortes IIIs. He happens to like horns, and have reviewed many. Your reviewer did not mention listening to great Jazz players, such as by Thelonious Monk, Miles, Hancock, Brubeck, Oscar Peterson, etc. he was only interested in " cranking them, and although they do crank, that is just one benefit of a horn design. Besides, I can guarantee you, if I ( and some others ) went inside of the Forte IIIs ( by removing the drivers, rear passive, and input panel ), there would be many things that could be done to them, to make them better. I have done so with the original Fortes, the series 2s, the original Chorus and series 2, the 4 models of the Epic series that has been copied by many , and some others, that were built here in the Arkansas plant, and this, of course, includes the Heritage series ( the Klipsch marketing department included the Forte 2, and now the 3, as Heritage models ). Being the old timer Klipsch guy that I am, I need to point out, that the 5 original Heritage series models ( with 4 still in production ), were PWK designs. Roy Delgado was behind all of the other designs. My opinion ( and many others ), of course, is, the Khorn, the Lascala, and the Belle ( no longer in production, because the Lascala outsold it, as well as the Belle used a shorter mid horn ), are worlds apart, superior, to any of the other Klipsch models. I am not speaking of the short lived Palladium series, although, my feelings about my preferred 3 are the same. I know I am making this about Klipsch, but, willgolf will post when he comes closer to a decision. ***** @dseltz, years ago, I heard an earlier, lesser model from the company. However, the current Saadhana seems like a winner, and at a fair price. *****Lastly, I completely agree with Ralph. A speaker, should be able to play " any " kind of music, and " handle " any kind of music, at every desired volume level, from the delicacy of a single violin, or, cannon blasts from the Telarc 1812. And yes, Zep, Floyd, and others, such as mentioned by Ralph. Enough of me ! Enjoy ! MrD. |
I understand, and completely validate, how wonderful the Jubilee is. However, as I pointed out, they fall into a category of similarity to the monstrous horn speakers johnk was talking about. The projection, presentation, and pressurization ( the 3 Ps ) of these, would be too much in a typically sized room. My Lascalas, at their size and capability, can fill an auditorium. These large horns, such as the Jubillee, in a typical room, would make a piano sound larger than life, and I am not talking about dynamics here. As much as I love their sound, they would simply overwhelm the listening experience, for me, in my current room. I can easily pinpoint, currently, the musicians, on a stage, in a realistic, and proper perspective, from my listening chair. This is, of course, my opinion, given my listening for so many years. I have stated elsewhere, that imaging and sound staging, are not the top priority for me when listening to a sound system. But I do not want to listen to a 60 foot wide piano, as it is simply not realistic for me. If I had a movie theater as a listening room, that would be another matter. With all this being said, if anyone would like to give me a pair of Klipsch Jubilees, or sell me a pair very reasonably, I believe I can modify and tweak them, have fun with them, and make them work in my room, living with the musicians, as being giants, lol. Enjoy ! MrD. |
mahlman, I know you, from the " bay ", as I recognize those huge full range horn speakers in ur warehouse. Place them in a 15 by 20 room, a standard sized listening room for many, and yes, they would be overwhelming, both visually, and acoustically. Now, knowing who you are, I can understand your viewpoint. I still disagree, as I do feel the speakers, in relation to the room size, are quite critical, and my many years of professional system design and set up, tells me that. We are all entitled to our opinions, have different experiences, and ultimately, our goals in a system. If the room was large enough, and the listening seat were further from the horns than norm, I might see them working. Again, I am not stating they aren't amazing. I am simply saying, " I " would want a larger listening area, and a further distance between them and my listening seat. Your last paragraph makes it sound like I was trying to talk the OP out of purchasing horns, which I am not. Your aluminum tweeter housings ( as well as your wooden ones ) for the Klipsch Lascalas, are very interesting. I am wondering if Roy Delgado would feel the Jubilees would work in a 15 by 20 room. Sorry if I offended you. Enjoy ! MrD. |
@georgesallit325...nice review, as you posted it earlier on this page. @johnk. We obviously listen differently, and want, and enjoy, different things. This was apparent when we had a debate between Lascalas and Altec 19s. I have owned a pair or two of 19s ( and modded many ), and I prefer the Lascala. I am " sensitive " to many hybrids ( a non bass horn ), as I hear the transition between the woofer section and the horn, and a lack of speed and finesse, with many of these bass sections, of some hybrids. I know you hear this, but maybe, you do not care about it. As far as large horn hybrids, or large full range horns ( the ones you speak about ), of which I have heard plenty, particularly many of the Klipsch KPT series, I prefer some distance, between them, and I. There is no discussion, or argument, here. This is what " I " prefer, and that is all. My perception of many of these units, when I am listening too close, is not a presentation that I feel is real, correct, or enjoyable. Again, this is me. You can rant all you want about me being wrong, as it does not matter to me. I do not need to explain how I developed my listening biases, nor defend them. I simply know what I like, and again, this is what matters. So, my take away from all of this, is that you, and Malhman, feel you both are correct, and that I am just plain wrong. So be it. 50 years in the high end audio industry, much time around live, un-amplified music, 50 years around, and a fan of, horn speakers, and, my ears have developed with a knowing of what I like. I also had, and still have, the ability for me, to help listeners create sound systems in their homes. And, guess what, johnnie boy. Not all of my customers, acquaintances, or friends, prefer horns. Although I do, I respect them all, and never judge them for what they prefer, and enjoy. Many people in this industry, seem to forget this very important point. We are all different. @willgolf. I know this is your thread. I do apologize for any thing I might have stated out of line, with you. My only advice for you. Try and listen to everything you can, before you buy, and, if possible, to listen in your new room. Yes, I am a Klipsch guy...Enjoy ! MrD. |
@phomchick...And yet, the reviewer, Art Dudley, thought the new AK6 Khorns, at 15K, was a steal. Go figure. Enjoy ! MrD. |
