Horn based loudspeakers why the controversy?

I am enjoying a pair of Klipsch Lascala speakers, which are my 3rd pair. These have the " AL " crossovers, which I understand, were not designed by PWK, but by another engineer at Klipsch, designed to be a more " audiophile " crossover. I have dampened the horns, the drivers, the cabinets, and have dampened and isolated the crossovers. I have owned so much gear in my 50 years of this ( including many speaker types, and brands ), and, all I can say, I am extremely happy.  I do use subs for the lowest octave, and run the LS's full range. Thank you, MrD

Kosst..........this is from your 1st post . " My system at home portrays a comparable sound to what I heard. Generally I feel that the dynamics of events like that are less than what people want to be hearing on a home stereo. I'm not sure 130 dB of dynamic range reflects reality very often. I don't believe that should be the goal of an audio system at the cost of other virtues ". Was your daughters extravaganza with or without electronic amplification ? If not, I doubt your system is comparable, unless the acoustics, or, your listening seat, was not very good. I doubt 130 db peaks were ever reached. I had my head banging times, but, as an older and more experienced listener, 130 db is not why I own horns. I admit, horns are not for everyone, but, I am guessing, you have never experienced a properly set up, higher end horn system, even that Khorn system you had exposure to. MrD

Actually, your listening seat, or the event's acoustics, would still not make it comparable.

Let me just say this. In my world ( as I assume others as well ), the goal of an audio system, is to, as faithfully as possible, recreate the live musical event. Virtues I listen for are ( not necessarily in specific order, but important ) : Top to bottom, octave to octave balance. Dynamic range. Sound staging. PRAT. Black, noiseless background. Finally, the sense of involvement. I am simplifying here, but there it is. I understand, I am listening to recordings ( live, or studio ), and some recordings are better than others, with some being exceptional, some ok, some mediocre, and some are poor. If I can get my toes tapping ( or not, depending on what I am listening to, just involved ), I have fulfilled my expectations. 

John, do not waste your time anymore with Kosst. I can say, easily, Focals, are not my cup of tea. This is what makes this a fun hobby, and quite a personal and individual one. It is all about the recorded music, and what each of us wants. Once someone starts to argue, or, try to make a point, about their equipment, and that they are right, it shows me, that they doubt themselves, and their selection of equipment. 

I suppose " he is " repeating himself............if I liked him, I would invite him over to listen, and, to finally, shut him up......... 

I find the Heresy to be a puzzle. A slow, air suspension, 12 in. woofer, mated to a midrange and tweeter horn. But yet, it works. The Epic series, same thing, but these were bass reflex enclosures. The Heresy's were desighned by PWK, and the Epic's by Roy Delgado, another brilliant Klipsch engineer. I had them all, but, I am so much happier with the Lascala design ( with modifications and upgrades ). The Simon Mears Ucello are based on the Klipsch Belle, and the big Voltis ( Vitori I believe ), are based on the Klipsch Lascala, both taken to extreme levels of superiority. Nothing like these full range horns, imo, even though help is needed at the last octave. I have not heard either the Ucello or the Vitori, but I can imagine how wonderful they both are. But amazingly as it sounds ( no pun intended ), when I listen to my system, I am so happy with the " total " presentation, as, they do just what I want, and, this is why we are all individuals and personalities at this. Funny story : I was at the "96 Stereophile show at the N.Y. Waldorf, as the demo guy, and a presenter, of the Jadis room. A friend of mine was the importer, and owned the gear. He and his partner asked me to do it ( I was honored ). Owning another pair of Lascalas at the time, and, was a public speaker in the audio field, they though I would be an asset. The designer and engineer of the Eurythmie 4 way horn loaded speaker was there, as well as two other Jadis designers and engineers. I was in heaven, let me tell you. But, it was so difficult setting up the system, and, as it turned out, the walls of the room, could not handle the volume and dynamic range this system was capable of. I brought many of my cds ( only source ), green marked, and damped, and of my many selections, two were standouts selected by the speaker designer. The Harper Brothers " Remembrance, Live At The Village Vanguard ", and, Roger Waters " The Pro's And Con's of Hitch Hiking ". Two of my reference, for the music, and, for system set up ( and capability ). Well, turns out , the speaker designer, throughout the many days of the show, would have me play tracks 4 and 5 of R.W's, TPACOHH, but, he took over of the volume controls ( the most gorgeous and smooth feeling controls I have ever experienced, btw ), and let her rip. How many times we were asked to turn it down, by hotel management, and other exhibitors. Why am I telling this story. Well, I spent time ( before, during and after the show hours ), to listen to a Jadis " top of the line ", completely " all tube " electronics front end, a horn system ( although the woofer sections were not horn designs ),the most beautiful, at that time that I have ever seen, or heard ), in a room, that was so poor, I, by the end of the show, I had one takeaway ( actually, two ). 1st take away. I had, in front of me, a system that cost more than my house ( more of a reality, than a takeaway ). 2nd take away. A system like this ( or even a more modest system like mine, which was horn based ), can uncover things to recorded music, that can create a lifelike representation of the real thing, unlike anything else ( to these ears ). Two caveats : Keep the volume moderate, and, to have the best designed room available. Done for now, and, thanks for reading. MrD

Just an FYI. Peter Noerback, of PBN Audio, introduced recently, a " horn " hybrid loudspeaker, using JBL pro drivers. He has used all of his listening and engineering prowess, to build a cabinet and crossover, to accommodate these drivers, resulting in, what he says, is the " best " he has ever designed. I think this says a lot about horn designs. Reminds me of the Epic CF4s I was owned ( although a D' Appolito design ) as, they have been mentioned in this post by another, claiming of all the speakers that have come and gone, these has stayed the longest, and he gets the most satisfaction out of them. No one here is claiming that horns are perfect ( I sure am not ), but I still say, with all else being excellent ( room, equipment, tweaks and such, horns do more good, than bad, in recreating a live musical event, if this is the sound you want, and this, is what you feel it should sound like ( of course, still personal ). Still, not for everybody. I value listeners, of all backgrounds and experiences, to select what they like. Again, this is what our hobby is all about. Sorry for my posts today, I suppose, I am in a passionate mood ( unfortunately ), I do not have a woman with me at the moment. MrD

I should have " prrof " read my last post, as I see some errors, lol.

Oh, look who chimed in. The troll who knows it all.

He has company.

I believed then, and now, that those trolls that come on here ( and other forums for that matter ) and try to ruin the party, are lacking, in some way, their manhood. There is just no other explanation. I believe these forums are to exchange insight, opinions and experiences, giving recommendations, and often, promoting a new piece of gear, or type of gear. But the bashing, does not make sense, other than my thoughts that there is " no other explanation ".

I owned, a very long time ago, a pair of Thiel 3.5s, along with, what I thought was a great combo / matchup with the Thiels, a Krell KSA 50, upgraded to a MK II, and then a KSA 100 MKII. I owned Lascalas at the time ( and another roomful of others, ). Ultimately, the Thiels went, as many speakers have. Not for me. I appreciate what they do, and, can understand why people keep them ( or any Thiel, or Focal, or anything ). As an audio professional for many years, I never " pushed " horns on anybody, although, I let them know my preference for them, and helped them achieve the sound that best suited them, whether horns, or otherwise. Folks who went the horn route, I helped with modifications, upgrades and tweaks, to maximize the design. Admittedly, many stock horn loudspeakers had resonances ( not just the horns, but the cabinets as well, from many companies, such as Klipsch, Altec, JBL, etc. ), and mediocre crossover components, and failed,  the listening test by many. I really understand this, because, a stock pair of Klipsch Lascala ( my favorite Heritage, or any stock product ), can be improved upon. These weaknesses were the result of a selling price point. So, I understand the negative reaction many people have to horns. I admit that the room, setup, associated gear, and listener distance, all play an important part of the equation. But, this pertains to any large, full range loudspeaker, ime. Why do the horn trolls act up ? Besides what I said earlier in another post, they are clueless to what a well designed horn " system " can do.

phusis, I have had my time with unsound. I really do believe, either, he has not heard a proper horn " set up ", or, he just does not like them ( even loathes them ). He is entitled. Just do not understand some of these folks, and why it bothers them so much, that many of us are enjoying our systems, that they need to " troll ". Ignore him, as he will take up much of your time, when you can be listening to music ( happily ).

kosst, no one here has ever used the term " perfect ", to describe horns, but, have shown " passion " for their attributes, and more important, preferences to us listeners. There is much passion, all over the ' Gon, about other items and categories as well. This hobby, is all a means, for each of us, to attain the sound each of us is looking for, to bring our recorded music closer to " the real thing ", whatever that might be. Should not be a right or wrong. So, my question to you, would be : Why do you care ? As for the OP ( John K ), I do not see him visiting the Thiel forums, or the Focal forums, telling all those owners that they are deaf, and need to develop a good set of ears. Just stay away, or behave, and all will be good. 

Kosst, you said this : " Sure, there's things they could do better, but I like what they do and they work well in the space I have ". A comment you made about your Focals. I could really talk about, in so many ways, why they " are not for me ". But I don't. Enjoy, and be merry with what you have. You are a troll.

oddiofyl, glad you are happy with them. Enjoy

helomech, I did say the Heresy worked, in the next sentence. Believe what you want, but, IMO, the Lascala, the Belle, and even the Vittori and Simon Mears, have a bass that is more musical, and coherent, between the bass and mid horn, than many. I love hybrids, and there are many I could probably live with. This is just my opinion. Enjoy your Heresys, as they are IMO, the best out there, at the price, and size ( I have owned many Heresys, mostly series 1, and some series 2. I have heard the series 3. If you PM me, I can give you a pointer or two on how to bring them to the next level ( however, if you bought them new, I would not want you to void the warranty ). Enjoy !  MrD 

P.S. You should join the Klipsch community, as, they are all Klipsch fanatics.

Atmasphere +++!

Wolf......That is awesome. Enjoy !, and welcome to the Klipsch family ! 

This is not the 1st thread concerning horns here on the "Gon, as pointed out by phusis. There will always be listeners, who admittedly or not, have had any or no reasonable experience with horns in the home. Those who have, going back years, probably did not hear the qualities they were looking for.
12-10-2017 1:17pm" I like horns, except for the fact that they sound shouty, forward, bright, beamy. The older style wood Klp type speakers sound boarning, slow, heavy and us resolving ". This was stated by soundsrealaudio, and, I understand some of his comment. We horn users, however, do not like this feedback, and honestly, I have known many listeners in my lifetime who have felt the same. johnk started this thread, and in the title, invited those naysayers ( some are just trolls ), to speak up. I have educated many, and have tried to with others, on the merits of horns, but never, in an argumentative way, to sway them ' my way ". I admit to have been " taken in " to some of these horn trolls here, and defending myself, which now, as I look back, was immature of myself. The simplicity of it all, is, there are those who simply remember the ' old days " of horns, when they were set up with high powered ss amps, in rooms that were acoustically poor, and this is their memory. Of course, some have little experience with a proper audition as well. As far as I am concerned, now, it is just their loss. I was introduced to Khorns in my low teens, and it has been a journey ever since, to find a loudspeaker that I appreciated more. I have had many, sold many, installed many, and, have enjoyed many. But none IMO, IMO IMO, has done what I discovered to be " my liking ". I became a tweaker almost immediately, with horn and cabinet damping, and, eliminated nasties that were present. And, this is what my hobby was all about. Are horns perfect ? Absolutely not, but horns ( good horns, most of them hybrids ), do more right, than wrong, in recreating a " live musical experience " than anything else, " for me ". And this, is the key statement. " For Me ". I was lucky to be around music listeners ( some of them audiophiles ), at an early age. I was also lucky to be involved in the industry ( during high school, college, and afterwoods ), where I gained much 1st hand experience. This gave me the advantage to find what I was looking for. Anyway, the next horn thread should be titled " What do we like about our horns ? ". I guarantee you, there will still be trolls showing up, with their BS. I am very sorry with my rant, and my imperfect writing skills. Always, Dan ( MrD ).

Wolf, glad you are enjoying the Heresy IIIs. Oddiofyl said it exactly : " Their strengths far outweigh any stortcomings they may have ". And yes, you too : " they’re fun ".

I cannot believe the horn troll is still at it. Gee, maybe I should listen to her, and get rid of my modified Klipsch Lascalas. NOT !

Hopefully if this thread continues there will not be any trolling, just satisfied and happy horn owners. However, maybe a new thread with a different title, saying something like " To all horn owners ". Enjoy ! MrD.

I believe " effortlessness " and " startling dynamics " are some of the qualities that live unamplified music brings to the listener, and ime, these qualities are captured, most honestly, by a good set of properly set up horns. Anyone not liking these qualities will not like horns. I completely disagree with kosst’s assessment, and agree with phusis that it is not " to each his own ". All live unamplified music, including kettle drums, have effortless dynamics, given one has the ability to sit close to the musicians. Enjoy ! MrD.

I am so sorry, kosst's post was at 10 : 08 PM.

Let us be clear, here and now, that on 12 / 1 / 17, at 12 : 08 PM, kosst says ( in a response to a post of mine ) " I can't say I've ever heard an ideally set up horn system in a residential setting ". Kosst, if you are ever in the central part of Florida ( Orlando, Daytona Beach ), you are welcome to come by. Anyone else for that matter. Enjoy ! MrD.

kosst, glad you heard them. Lascalas used, with mods, tweaks and updates, are much less than 8K. Enjoy ! MrD.