Holographic Soundstage ?


I would like to share my observation and hopefully get some input from people who have the same interest.

My system consist of Wharfedale Opus 3 , Krell KRC-3 preamp, Krell KSA 150 amp, Chord Qutest DAC and a computer with JCAT USB EX running Roon/with LPSU from HDPlex.
I mainly like holographic soundstage and would be able to achieve a very good 3D soundstaging with my current Krell setup.
I decided to try out tube amp a couple days ago because I read through the internet and everybody told me that tube amp always have better holographic soundstage and 3D imaging comparing to SS amp.
So I order a Raven Blackhawk MK3 from Raven audio with 45 days home trial just to try it out. I was expecting a very holographic soundstage that will blow my Krell out of the water.
Well, I was so WRONG. The Krell combo actually has a deeper and wider soundstage comparing to the Raven.
The Raven also has some very weak bass comparing to the Krell which is more punchy and tonally rich textured bass.
I cannot understand why it happens. I am always under the impression that tube amp will always provide more holographic soundstage. Obviously, In my set up the Krell is superior when it come to 3 dimensionality.

I will keeping trying out the Raven Blackhawk in the next couple of weeks and if things are not improved. I am ready to return the Raven and perhaps trying out the other tube amps (or solid state amps) that can beat the Krell combo.

If any one has some idea of such a product, please let me know. I am looking for an upgrade right now.

128x128viethluu

Showing 2 responses by 8th-note

There is a piece of gear that has the specific objective of giving you a more holographic soundstage. It's a processor from a company called BSG (no longer in business) and the model is a QOL (pronounced coal). It has been positively reviewed by Stereophile and TAS and the reviews are available on their websites. When new they sold for $4k which I believe is a large reason why they didn't catch on. You can occasionally find one on the used market for under a grand.

I have one in my system (Krell KSA 300S, KRC-2, Theil CS6 speakers) and I really like the effect. An audio buddy recently stayed at my house for a couple days and he was very impressed by the depth of the soundstage and the placement of voices and instruments. When bypassed, the difference is very noticeable. I use it nearly all the time. Once in a while I encounter a recording that sounds worse using the QOL but that's pretty rare.

If you can find one I highly recommend trying it. If you don't like it you should be able to resell it for nearly what you paid for it so it's a low risk proposition. I like mine so much I bought a second one in case the first one quits working.
@ mikekollar

I also have a C9 and I've compared the two processors. I prefer the BSG because the effect covers a wider listening area. You can be sitting a couple feet to either side and you still get the soundstage effect with the BSG but with the Carver you have to be right in the sweet spot. When you are in the right position, the Carver has a somewhat greater effect than the BSG. For everyday listening I like the effect of the BSG somewhat better but the Carver is an excellent processor.

The BSG designer was sketchy about exactly how the processor works but apparently it separates the music into separate bands and applies the phase modification (or whatever) differently to each band. It's a pain to compare the processed signal to the bypassed signal because the processor adds several db of volume which is one feature I definitely don't like. There is some decent information in the review articles but they don't really explain how it works.

On a side note, I heard a demo of Synergistic tweaks at the 2018 AXPONA and was blown away by their Atmosphere thingy (the speakers were upper-end Magicos). It is a narrow square column that sits between and behind the speakers. I couldn't hear any difference from the HFT gizmos but when he turned off the Atmosphere the soundstage collapsed. I can't understand how it works from looking at their website but it certainly had a noticeable positive effect.