"The question isnt how loud you can play, but at what distortion is at that volume level. "
Its both really in that distortion is a common reason why one might not choose to go louder.
Another way to say it is distortion becomes more of an issue typically at higher volumes often even before clipping sets in.
You might want to hear good things louder but certainly not noise and distortion. Ideally you want to hear none of that, not more as the volume goes up.
Guranteed that in general listening levels can be higher when distortion is lower. |
Its hard to get perfect results much less be certain of everything in a rushed audition. There are many reasons why one hears what they hear in any particular case.
Apparently whatever Rebbi heard was convincing since the old speakers are gone.
Regarding Tekton delivering much of what one might get for a lot more, I do believe that we become conditioned to have a bias against less expensive products that actually sound quite good as a result of being constantly exposed to bigger, fancier, more expensive alternatives.
Also I think after a while one has to split some hairs to make a determination of what is best whereas the reality is that there no conclusive evidence that indicates ANY audio product offered at any price is truly best.
Time always tells. Be it women speakers amps or whatever whatever tends to stick around the longest is probably the best for you. First impressions can only go so far.
Hey but if not for all that, what would there be left for us all to talk about here? It all serves a purpose I suppose. |
The AN speakers might fit on a larger pair of isoacoustics stands which are adjustable and not expensive. They would sit lower to the ground with optional tilt up for the tweeter. That could well compensate for not placing them on higher stands in a corner. Boundary reinforcement would seem to be a key ingredient for good high eff performance from a smaller box on a budget. |
Rebbi the other thing about low placement with slight tilt up is this can work in your favor with imaging and soundstage in a smaller rooms due to longer delays for reflections from ceiling and rear wall. Audiokinesis has mentioned this approach that he has applied in some of his recent designs. The results with Triangle Titus low to floor on isoacoustics with slight upward tilt in my wife's sunroom supports this. |
Warning: cheap plug.
I just listed my TAD Hibachi monoblocks for sale. I downsized the system they were in to an integrated amp.
These might appeal to SET lovers as an alternative SS design with tube amp sound in mind.
Not expensive so could also make for a nice pair of backup amps when/if the current starters go on the disabled list. |
Tube groover
Could be. Have you heard it and compared? I've heard both and compared these to various other amps of all designs I have heard. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Plus these will work very well with most any speaker. No problem going as loud as desired with most. |
I will also soon be putting up my mhdt paradisea tube Dac including two different 5270 tubes and my stax electret phones. Also a few extra Mit ics I no longer need. Cleaning out some stuff. For the first time in a few years as a result of the downsize to integrated. |
Running a set with a subwoofer verges on heresy I suspect. It's another step away from the pure ness of the set design. Not to say the results might not be quite good if done right. It would still seem to go counter to the norm for sets. Not that there's anything wrong with that. |
Heresy shmeracy. If it works it works. |
The TAD Hibachis are a unique design. Take a look at the design aspects listed for them and you'll see. Tube Audio Design specialized in tube gear and the designer had a very devoted following. They do use some kind of tube in the power feed.
I bought them as an experiment to try to achieve "tube amp" sound with SS. THese accomplish that quite well I would say. I suspect many or most would have difficulty identifying them as a SS amp in a blind test against some of teh better tube amps out there I have heard in that they have no audible vices that I can detect. Plus they are very transparent and seem to take on teh sound of the gear they are used with more than anything else. I've heard that using them in both my systems with very different gear at various times. I feel confident they would outpeform a SET amp with most less efficient speaekrs out there for sure.
So if one is truly interested in a SS amp that might do teh trick, and work well with most any spaekers, for very reasonable cost, these are the guys to try still IMHO.
I've heard VAC, ARC, various SETs (not Coincident) etc. I.m not saying these will sound the same, but I think they would impress most.
They are not soft, rounded, fat or have any unique characteristics like that that can sometimes be associated with some tube gear. Rather thehy sound more like what the best performing tube and SS gear I have heard sound like. Hard to find fault with teh sound IMHO. The only thing is that they do not go as loud as completely effortlessly as my 500 w/ch Bel Canto amps, but then a gain few amps do.
Just saying... |
"If they are as you describe them Mapman I would only ask WHY are you selling them."
They were in my second system which I replaced with a Bel Canto C5i integrated that is also very good (but only 65 watts) and greatly simplifies that system for use by everyone in my family. It includes phono stage and DAC as well allowing me to use 1 very small device in place of many.
The Hibachis were too big to fit in the audio cabinet where the rest of that system resides. They sat separately on the floor next to all the rest.
So the Hibachis are no longer needed as a result of the downsizing and simplification of that system and I can't justify keeping them if I can sell for a reasonable price. Otherwise I might keep them around as spares or for use in a different system, but I'm taking the opportunity to clean out some things I have that are not needed. The extra cash will come in handy.
The C5i replaced my amps, pre-amp, and DAC so the sound is quite a bit different than before, more like my main system which also uses Bel Canto Class D amps. I used the Hibachis in there when I had to send the ref1000m amp there to Bel Canto for repairs a couple years back. They filled in admirably as I described. The sound was significantly different in each of my systems though where the biggest difference was in pre-amp (NAD versus ARC) and DAC (mhdt tube DAC versus SS).
So they have done the job admirably in all cases where I used them. They were in my second system for a few years and were listened to there almost daily. There is little not to like about them, except maybe they have some size to them. I cannot find a fault other than absolute output levels compared to much bigger amps as I described. |
Tube I'd agree with your assessment of the mhdt dacs. Both I own share the same positive traits though one is tube and sensitive to tube rolling and the SS and just darn good as it is. Either sounds similarly excellent with most any good quality source I've used over the years and I've used quite a few with both always with great success. I used to covet dcs gear. That is my reference for how good digital can sound. I'm not saying the mhdts are as good as dcs but whatever the difference that might exist I find it does not matter to me. These things just make good music! The enjoy the sound review from a few years back nailed it exactly I have found. |
I can't see a moderate size and cost open baffle design working particularly well from an efficiency perspective with a low power amp. The box size in conjunction with drivers is what delivers extended bass efficiently. Those drivers would have to outperform most any others similar by a wide margin to do that which seems unlikely.
But you never know. Open baffle has its charms otehrwise much like a SET does, so I suppose again its more a matter of what is valued most and what tradeoffs will be made on a limited budget.
Of course I have not heard them. They just might be the cat's meow. There is no substitution for extended auditions in a case like this. |
"Sensitivity: 95dB - averaged across 200Hz to 5kHz at 1M - on axis"
Efficiency down to 200hz is not that hard and not that meaningful IMHO. The bass is where it becomes hard to maintain efficiency levels, exponentially so as the frequency decreases. Most likely drops off a lot below 200 hz. Measurements done well would tell. Might still work well off a SET in a smaller room. How much meat on the bones would be my main question. |
Also 4 ohm nominal impedance rating. that alone is a red flag for must tube amps, much less a SET. I'd pass on this one. |
As mentioned prior Klipsch in general is a very good place to look for value with higher efficiency affordable speakers.
Fact is Klipsch has been around a long time in both home and pro audio. Almost as long as there have been tube amps for home audio. The vintage stuff in particular was designed to run off lower power tube amps of the day and was the basis of their success back then. Must have done something right in that area. |
Fwiw I have limited mileage with klipsch but the times I have spent with them always left a smile on my face and made me take notice. One should almost feel compelled to give a tried and true potential high value brand like that a fair go first before going more esoteric. Kind of like the OHM Acoustics of high efficiency horn designs. 😉
I've yet to hear a set achieve top level performance at higher volume levels without a horn or two in the equation for the highest possible efficiency. |
Some good info in the "good affordable horns" thread Started here a few years back. |
I have my STAX SR84 phones up for sale. If they don't sell, I envision keeping them for use with a SET amp someday.
Here are the specs:
Specifications Earspeaker SR-80
Type Electret/push-pull
Frequency Response 25--25,000Hz
Impedance 150k ohms/10,000Hz
Sensitivity 95dB/100v rms input
Maximum Output Sound Level 110dB
Continuous Maximum Input 5W(lkHz)
Momentary Maximum Input 30W(lkHz)
Frequency Response 10~30,000Hz( ± 2.5dB)
Distortion Less than 0.02% THD(lkHz/1W) |
Reb, so sorry to hear that. My most heatrtfelt condolences for you.
On the bright side, sounds like she was a marvelous person and mother, and lived a long a productive life. As I'm sure you know but may have not experienced, I'm sure, the spirit of our deceased loved ones remain with us forever. My parents both died in their 70s when I was quite young. But the good news it seems is that their spirit continues to guide and provide us solace no matter what. I'm sure you will find this to be the case as well. |
Like a SET, Klipsh or any HE speaker are a unique breed and is not likely to sound its best with the same gear as thw more typical modern speaker fare.
Its all about getting good synergy/performance to start with and tweaking the details from there. Many different recipes for this. The ones for unique breeds like SETs and HE speakers will also be unique. So I do not pay any attention to those who merely plop a Heresy into their existing system and expect excellent results. Like a good sports team, you have to identify your "star performers" whatever those are and build around those accordingly over time until you hit the bullseye. |
They (Fritz carbon 7 SEs)may sound different and even quite lovely (have not heard) but based on size and specs will be very surprised if these can inherently outperform even the Decapos off just a few watts, particularly in the bass, at higher volumes in particular.
Not a match made in heaven at least on paper, but you never know how things will sound exactly until you try. Could still be the cat's meow at modest volumes in particular. |
REb, did you sell the Decapos? Are you without speakers still at this point? |
A famous audiophile once said:
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"
...wait that wasn't an audiophile who said that first. :^)
He also said no coveting or graven images.
Couldn't have been an audiophile. |
It would be interesting to be able to actually audition and compare the various AN speaker models at the various price points.
For me, what I find challenging is not what each model is so much as what are the difference in sound quality in that teh main difference seems to be the wires and other parts used more so than the basic design or drivers used. I would expect huge differences given teh range of prices but no way to know what to choose without listening and comparing it seems, more so than most lines. |
Reno take a look at isoacoustics stands on Amazon if there are a size that would fit. Isolating stands and platforms like auralex subdude seem to take imaging soundstage and detail to a higher level in my upper level rooms not at foundation level. |
So are these the "ones"?
Nothing wrong with not being totally enamored with something and saying. I bet even Tom Brady can find something not to like about Giselle. |
Regarding the Audio Note speakers, I just saw a pair on higherfi web site that shows a retail price of $250,000.
I didn't realize they could go that higher. Then again, the site is called "higherfi".
Next time I hear AN-E at a show and like them, I really need to nail down which ones they are exactly and how much they cost. They are usually among the best, but for those prices I suppose they should be. |
I'll check out the Roku. Their box technology for music streaming was not up to snuff with Amazon Fire TV box when it first came out, but things change. I used a pair of Roku Soundbridge Streamers to external DAC several years back prior to Squeezebox. Those sounded very good, undistinguishable from Squeezebox Touch into same DACs I thought at the time. I still have a couple sitting around unused but the hardware and software is somewhat dated these days. But I have been hoping Roku would get serious about music streaming again ever since and figured maybe it was just a matter of time. |
Whoops, posted to wrong thread above and cannot delete..... |
Low Risk Klipsch What would be lost with trying these? This is one I have on my short list of hieff speakers I would pursue if/when the time comes. its hard to argue against these based on anything but personal taste. I've heard these in Best Buy running off modest a/v receivers and had only positive impressions. A big surprise for me given you would not hear about a common product like this much in these parts. 8" woofer and high efficiency sounds like a good combo for a SET. having heard many speakers both old and new over the years, I've long thought 8" woofers to perhaps be the optimal size for best affordable bass in many cases. |
" I believe Tekton's relatively low cost works against it for some people(it's too good to be true mindset)."
Probably true for some. You can never please everyone, even by offering a tremendous value. But value is value and always a good thing so people can recognize it or not but that does not change it. Word of mouth can be a powerful driving force and value is often the thing that fuels that best. No doubt direct sales over the internet helps cut out the middleman and enables values that are hard to achieve otherwise these days. Few things I see in traditional B&M shops these days are the best values out there. They operate as much on brand name recognition as anything else. |
Any speaker or any amp may or may not work out in any case. What matters is long term success ie how many times users have achieved success with a suitable matching. That separates the winners from the losers over the long term.
Rebbi, one thing I wonder is, in hindsight, do you still think the AN was better with the Decapos than the Manleys prior? That surprised me at teh time. My impression is that you found the new amp to have more appeal at teh time but you discovered the shortcomings in teh mating later on.
There are fine speakers I have gotten rid of over the years (B&W, Magnepan, KEF, others) that I wish I had now to try with my current Class D amps which I have found sound the best I have ever had with any speaker I use them with, large or small. |
More Shameless plugs:
Tad hibachis are gone.
I have stax phones and mhdt tube Dac up for sale now. I'd love to hear both with a set amp. If not in tested send me a set to try and I might end up keeping them both. 😉 |
