@mikem,
If you are so inclined would you post your listening impressions/comparison of these two highly regarded amplifiers?
Charles |
@whoopycat,
Coherent Audio speakers seem to fly beneath the radar. All comments I've come across in regard to them are consistently very positive.
I have no doubt your audio system sounds beautiful with those speakers driven by the First Watt S,I,T. 2 amplifier.
Charles |
Hi kinara,
I understand your point regarding the straying away from the original thread inquiry about high gain preamplifiers. I just believe that people were trying to point out that this wasn’t simply an issue of additional ’gain' to solve the problem expressed by the OP. In fact he (murphbass) later in this thread came to the realization that adding more gain to his system via a preamplifier wasn’t the course he wanted to follow.
BTW kinara I do happen to share your appreciation of high quality low power amplifiers. I’ve been a very happy owner of an 8 watt 300b SET amplifier for over 10 years. I do readily acknowledge that it (terrific as it is) is not the right choice for everyone and speaker selection requires thought and scrutiny.
Charles |
kinara, murphbass began this thread by explaining in many cases he's been very happy with the sound quality (SQ) of his S.I.T.3 and Maggie pairing. He did however certainly cite that there are some observed shortcomings as well. He wondered if it could be a lack of power "I wish I had more power" in certain situations or is more gain needed? He straightforwardly was soliciting input/suggestions on this forum regarding his dilemma. IMO his generated some very informed responses and interesting dialogue and commentary. Posters did not dispute his claim of very good SQ with his amp/speaker pairing. Opinions were expressed and shared in regard to what might be suitable solutions to his 'stated' concerns. I believe that murphbass gained some additional insight and appreciates the many good responses he received. So I don't understand your characterization of "shooting from the hip" which seems dismissive of what were well intentioned and thoughtful replies to murphbass's clearly stated concerns. I don't doubt you hear very good sound with your S.I.T. 3 and Maggie 20.7 but would this be your ideal long term amplifier for these speakers? It so then I hope they continue to provide you many years of listening pleasure. Charles. |
Thanks atmosphere, The replies from Al and joeinid (per Nelson Pass comments) were clarifying explanations. Charles |
Hi joeinid, I know you've had some excellent SS amps in your system so your comment regarding the S.I.T.-3 is quite a compliment. I would not be surprised if you preferred it over Avantgarde's own sibling amplifier. Charles |
Hi Al, Thank you for the very clear (as usual) explanation. I suspected that different amplifier topologies respond differently (to some degree) with higher speaker impedances. You are correct, my SET amplifier (8 watts) pairs beautifully with a 14 ohm speaker impedance. It seems the amplifier is just coasting along. Charles |
Hi joeinid,
Thanks for posting that detailed explanation per Nelson Pass. Given atmosphere’s comments I wondered if thi applies to the S.I.T-3 (up to a certain point). In your case you prefer the sound with less than your speaker’s 18 ohm impedance load.
My speakers are 14 ohms and my amplifier seems to thrive with this high impedance. No doubt that this likely varies amongst amplifiers.
Charles |
I’d love to hear a direct comparison of the two Canadian speakers, Tetra and Coherent Audio speakers (Toronto Ontario).Either can be driven by low power SET amplifiers. Charles |
Ralph (atmosphere) Do you believe the S.I.T.3 would improve SQ further if driving a 12 or 16 ohm speaker load (due to lower distortion) or is 8 ohms optimal for this particular amplifier? Charles |
Murphbass,
Didn't see your latest post until I'd left a reply. Anyway I feel you made a good decision when all is factored in. There are truly excellent higher sensitivity dynamic speakers available (I listed a small sample a couple of days ago). I don't believe that you will miss the Magneplan speakers.
I also believe you'll love SET amplifiers if you decide to go that route. As with mglik I'm a devoted SET aficianodo.
Charles |
Hi Al,
As soon as I posted I saw your response, you beat me by a minute. It seems that we have reached similar conclusions (😊) regarding gain versus more power to drive the Maggie. 7 speakers.
Charles |
Mglik, ,
You make some very compelling points. When all is said and done subjectivity rules. You have to choose what ’you’ feel sounds best and provides the most enjoyment and satisfaction,. Murphbass says he’s on the "cusp" of what he wants with his current audio system make up. So it’s quite conceivable that the addition of system signal gain could put him where he wants to be. We are discussing what ’he’ wants.
With the right cartridge (which Al has asked about and rightly so) the suggestions posted here of various high gain preamplifier/line stages could be the solution in this specific scenario. I have to acknowledge that from murphbass’ perception (not mind or anyone else) he is quite close to his objective.
Charles |
Hi murphbass,
Your thread has generated many good responses and viable solutions for your dilemma.
1 keep the amplifier and speakers and add a high gain preamplifier.
2 Keep the Magnepans and acquire a more powerful amplifier for them.
3 Keep the S.I.T.-3 and acquire suitable higher sensitivity/efficiency speakers.
Which direction is more appealing to you as a long term choice?
Charles |
Hi Al,
Usually JA uses 1% distortion/clipping as his reference point for measuring power output into a given impedance load. Thus the <20 watts into 4 ohms I cited. However I agree with you that 2 or 3 % 2nd order harmonic distortion would very likely not be noticed or objected to in real world listening conditions. As Ralph (atmosphere) has noted on numerous occasions, human hearing has much tolerance for 2nd order even distortion (but miniscule tolerance for higher odd order distortion).
Charles |
I find it pleasantly surprising that murpbass is getting the good sounding results relatively speaking. I recall from the Stereophile review the S.I.T.-3 put out less than 20 watts into a 4 ohm test load rather than the rated 30 watts. So on paper quite a bad match yet able to yield very good sound in ’some' listening circumstances per murphbass. Impressive when you really consider the obvious handicap involved.
In my mind an excellent circuit and design execution by the iconic Nelson Pass (no surprise in that regard). Logic dictates that matching with a compatible speaker = sublime sound quality that joeinid alluded to earlier in this thread.
Charles |
You can construct an excellent audio system with either speaker or an amplifier as the initial step or base. I’ve done it both ways and so have other experienced audiophiles/music lovers. My current system (10 years) is amplifier first in approach and has provided pure listening joy. The S.I.T.-3 is a superb foundation to build an audio system around. IMO the Magnepan.7 is a good audio product, the S.I.T.-3 is an exceptional audio product. I just feel that between the two this First Watt amplifier takes you further up the sonic /high quality sound chain.
Charles |
Murpbass,
On paper Zu Audio and Klipsch are two brands that meet your requirements with some of their models. Theses brands are somewhat polarizing, listeners either love them or strongly dislike them. There does not seem to be a middle ground. Worth looking into.
Charles |
Murphbass,
Here are a few brands of very good quality and reasonable pricing that I believe will work very well with your amplifier or an SET amplifier. The S,I.T.-3 is capable of world class sound quality if driving properly selected speakers.
1 Coherent Audio (Canadian) their "Prime" model range.
2 NSM Audio Model 100.USA.
3 Tekton "Perfect SET" speakers.USA.
4 Vaughn Loudspeakers. Various models. USA.
5 Decware Audio has numerous models. USA.
Charles |
While the speaker and amplifier are individually good products, as a pairing they aren’t compatible IMO. The assessment of roberjerman is on the mark. If I were in this situation I’d keep the First Watt S.I.T-3 and purchase a more suitable speaker for it (higher sensitivity with an easier to drive speaker impedance load). This amplifier delivers less than 20 watts into a 4 ohm load. The maggies (83 db sensitivity) need more than this to perform at their best. Yet if matched with an appropriate speaker according to owner feedback the S.I,T.-3 will sing will superb sound quality.
Murphbass which do you cherish more, your Maggie’s or the S.I.T,-3? I believe that your amplifier is the better of the two products and offers more sonic performance potential upside ultimately. I readily acknowledge that this is simply my humble opinion. In summary I don’t believe this is exclusively a "gain" issue.
Charles |
