High End System Building. How important is the matching, cabling and room? Thoughts ?

Are you of good faith or are you able to read correctly ?

If you listen to some here you can put any equipment in a good room and it will sound the same?

I dont like behind the back remarks about me...PUT MY NAME or stay mute ...

And also LEARN HOW TO READ: I never said that we can put any cheap low cost gear in place of high end gear forr the same acoustic result in a room and it will sound the same ...Acoustics dont replace design quality ... I said that any system will improve in a dedicated acoustic room at any price and often improve more than many upgrades ...An upgrade to be a real one must be made in OPTIMAL acoustic condition ...

First room acoustics is the MAIN factor to improve sound ONCE and only ONCE we had a relatively synergetical system to begin with ... ( here the system price do not matter because we all have budget limit... do you get it ? )

Suppose your system value is 10,000 bucks, it will be a greater improvement to modify the room for the better than buying a 1000 bucks cable or a new dac near the same price level than the one you already have etc ...

But for sure if you own a cheap amplifier no room acoustics will compensate for this fact ...All begin as i said above with a relatively good gear system according to our budget and synergetical to begin with ... But Upgrades  urge  race is useless most of the times BEFORE learning and experimenting with acoustics ...

Do you get it ?

There is three main working dimensions for any system at any price, the electrical noise floor level, the mechanical controls of vibrations, the acoustical control of the relation speakers room ... These three embeddings controls matter more than almost any piece upgrade and anyway these three embeddings controls jobs must be done BEFORE a costly upgrade to be able to evaluate the level of quality of what you already own before throwing your money out of the window... Some have bought 40 amplifiers and never had experiment with their acoustics... Complete lost of money....

Next time adress to me if you doubt one of my post ...not about me behind my back...

I distinguished minimal acoustic satisfaction threshold and maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold INSTEAD of the distinction between mid-fi and high end ...

Why ?

Because the distinction between mid-fi and high end is related to price tags not only to objective design quality in all cases...

The distinction between the two acoustical satisfaction threshold had no  direct and immediate relation with price but is related mainly  to the way the three working embeddings controls are put in place ...

The MINIMAL  threshold is reach by me now with my low cost system ... Passed this minimal threshold exist many levels between good system in display here by many members and world level system as mike lavigne one ...All these are under or above this MAXIMAL  acoustical satisfaction threshold...

it is not price tag that define good sound but acoustics knowledge, for sure a top system on the world stage will  cost a lot of money and a lot of  studies and a lot of experiment time ... This is the bad news..

The good news is anybody can reach the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold at relatively low price if he put his mind in studying what to do to control the electrical noise floor of the system , of the room and of his house... Then he must learn how to control vibrations and resonance ... And the last but not least he must learn how to control the room acoustics to serve his ears brain and the speakers relation ..

The room is the most cost effective measure for good listening experience - I prefer just a lot of book shelfs full of random sized books and phase gradient diffusers on the ceiling - which are a specialty item that you can find from companies that do acoustic room treatments - Armstrong Ceilings in one company  has a few that look attractive, As far as snake oil or should I say cables - keep them short and a good stranded cable of 12 gauge (or something that will take 15 amps or so)  from what Dr Toole had mentioned in his book, a 12 gauge stranded wire will loose around 1db over a 65 foot span. if you need to run a line at 60' + then either thicker cable or make your own using thin strips of copper  foil laminated together between Mylar or Kapton - Mylar is way cheaper. this will allow the capacitance and inductance to basically cancel each other out. The ultimate cable is the Transposed Litz Cable, use in high frequency reactors and transformers - but that's an overkill. Cables are the least likely to effect your sound in comparison to things like dirty power, bad speakers and or placements and especially bad room acoustics.

but getting good cables for the preamp stage is way more important. in the studio environment where I do most of my work - having double conductor balanced cables (4 conductors instead of three) is now used in pro studios. The movement of wires inside a cable does effect the sound quality when you move them around, and this is caused by changes in capacitance between the live conductor and ground. with 4 conductors and movement in the live wire gets cancelled out (for the most part) chance are you will not hear that issue because consumers don't use condenser mic which have a rather low levels in comparison to line level signals that a preamp would produce. but it help out

one snake oil that works quite well  is Stabilant 22, which has been around for at least 35 years or so. these improve connections of low level signals _ basically in the nano scale, the material will conduct when an electrical field  is present, such that connections that are very small (like 1/4 jacks or RCA) will have a very small footprint where it connects. if you have a lot of connections (like ones found in recording studios -just  think patch bays) then you really start to hear it. the best cure for this is to eliminate as many connections as possible. You can find Stabilant 22 on ebay. I knew the inventor who was a member of the AES in Toronto (the same AES that Dr Toole is a member of) 

Just getting Dr Toole's book -" Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms", will be your most effective tool for all things audio. there is nobody in the world that has done that amount of research in psychoacoustics then him. His book is the bible of understanding what good sound really is. I've known him from the AES in Toronto for about 35 years. 

@calvinj , I am also going to say that in my small untreated flawed room with the speakers and front end that I now have on board, what I now hear that makes the biggest difference in SQ is due to the quality of the source material. I am (for good or for ill) all digital, and I am not just referring to my taste in music. I am not a huge jazz fan, but over the past couple of years I have been trying, and although it is not my favorite genre, some of the jazz SACDs I have bought over the last few years have some of the best sonic quality ("more musical", ha ha) in my collection. And then there are CDs in my collection from genres that I really like and those from genres that I used to really like that have the nails-on-a-chalk-board-effect on me. I have SACDs that are nothing special in SQ as well . . . on the other hand I have red-book stuff that I am totally blown away by, and I assume it is my front end (most specifically the SACDP) interacting with a "well" recorded mixed and mastered disc.

Which leads me to conclude that the very front of the system MIGHT be the most important link in the entire chain. But since I know that is an invitation to pushback, I am going to qualify that by saying that I am only speculating as a mostly satisfied and not disgruntled consumer who loves the sound of his system in a small bad room when it (the system) is getting things right.

@mahgister i am. Not doing anything behind your back at all. Look I respect your opinion. I just strongly disagree with it. I understand how you strongly feel. I’m not mad at you and I’m not offended by you disagreeing with me. I strongly disagree with your position but please don’t take it personal. I respect how professionally you have responded. But I disagree with you. Don’t think I hate you as a person or that I’m sneak dissing you behind your back. It’s Audiogon you will see what I post. Look we have debated this topic on and on. You have wrote long answers and explained your position. Yes the room can help you some. But not as much as you probably think in my eyes. I respect your ideas and arguments in your position. But I’m not talking behind your back. It’s Audiogon. You will see my response like you are seeing it now. Just don’t take it that personal. You are a smart thoughtful guy. Continue to engage on this thread or any others. But the more you respond the stronger I feel about my own position. Based on those responses. It’s ok to disagree and still be ok with each other. Always feel free to respond on my threads.