High end speakers at low volume


After having got accustomed to my new Vitus RI-101 mk II, I came to the conclusion that I need to improve my system's performance at low volume to enjoy music more.

Current sources: LinnLP12, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Nucleus. 
Speakers: Avalon Idea. 
Shunyata Delta NR V2 and Hemingway Indigo PC, Tara Labs Forté, TQ 2 Black diamond IC.

I am looking at replacing the Avalon Idea with speakers that could improve the low volume listening experience. I listen to 60 / 70db, I can afford to go up to 85db for very short time (neighbours).

I am also considering to purchase a Loki Max which I understood being quite a neutral EQ unit.

I have selected a few speakers which should match my musical taste based on what I have read:

- YG Carmel 2
- Wilson Sabrina X
- Vandersteen treo ct
- TAD ME1

I don't have the chance to listen to them except the TAD ME1 which I have enjoyed very much but not in my apartment.

Budget max $15k new or used.

I am looking for speakers sounding musical, with wide soundstage, not cold, detailed yet not analytical.

I mostly listen to classic rock, blues and jazz.

The system sits at the end of the long wall in a living room measuring 33x13ft, listening position 8ft from the speakers.

Unfortunately I have to face a tough WAF putting several limits:

- speakers must have a clean design, not black, not too hifi looking... and not too big
- distance from the wall behind the speakers 25cm

I don't mind changing amplifier if it will be necessary to match the next speakers.

I haven't found a preamp that I could consider a good candidate except a very expensive CSport featuring a loudness button which works very well (tested at Ana Mighty Sound).

I would much appreciate some advice from who knows well the above speakers or who had similar needs.

ricco275

Showing 5 responses by phusis

@ghdprentice wrote:

High efficiency does not equal sounds good at low volumes.

Actually, quite often it does lead to an added level of sonic involvement here (of course, whether it sounds good at lower volumes is relative to the specific implementation of the design, as with any speaker), certainly with horn-loaded speakers. Whether that’s due to how horns interact with the medium of air, the nature of them being more directive, a usually (much) larger air radiation area, less inertia build-up of the cones (= less smear), a frequent combination with SET’s, or other, I don’t know, but high efficiency horn-loaded speakers tend to be more "attentive"/more readily ignite at lower volumes vs. low eff. direct radiation speakers, and it’s not because of a low SPL-complimentary "loudness" curve. Rather it seems to be a factor of their inherent sonic nature (dictated by design principle), gear combination, and how they interact with the acoustic environment. Where low eff. direct radiating speakers excel at lower volumes I’d expect it to be for reasons more related to the frequency curve, being a point source and/or other.

Tone controls definitely not part of the equation. You want as pure and high quality signal as possible to excellent sounding speakers.

Depends on the implementation. Actively configured "tone controls" is really just a configurable crossover that’s already there by necessity, usually in the digital domain, so there’s no subtraction of "purity" here.

The lower the noise floor of the system the less volume reqired.

It certainly heightens awareness and overall hearing acuity at lower SPL’s as well as broadening the perceived dynamic range, which is a good thing.

Putting tone controls in the equation raises the noise floor.

Again, depends.

@ricco275 wrote:

in your opinion what’s the best tone control option?

Poster @mijostyn has proposed some options for correction in the digital domain preamps, and this would seem a sound solution in your case with the opportunities offered here.

Another way of considering "tone controls" is a more "analogue" approach, namely that of considering the acoustics in your specific environment by means of what’s in the locale itself (rather than post-effect digitally like suggested previously). A livelier environment acoustically can aid low level attentiveness; the importance of a simple thing like a rug on the floor in front of the stereo, what kind it is (a thicker rug or, say, a cow skin) and its position in front of the stereo. Moving it closer to the stereo/speakers takes away some reverberative impact, moving it further away vice versa. Also, experiment with toe-in. Move a little closer to the speakers and adjust accordingly with their positioning - this might help making the sound a bit livelier for a given volume setting.

Another aspect to consider: bass. This segment of TAS’s review of the TAD ME1 brings it into perspective:

...

However, even the finest smaller monitors ultimately run low of bass firepower at some point. Thus sub-forty-cycle bass, while perceivable to a degree, became more of a challenge as the ME1’s responsiveness and focus began to soften and waver slightly, especially at low volume levels.

You might consider adding a pair of subs. The implications of this are potentially far reaching and affects the whole frequency span - at lower SPL’s as well.

@mijostyn wrote:

... Having said this, you are not going to create a loudness compensation curve via room treatment. The goal is to reverse the Fletcher-Munson curve at the volume you prefer to listen at. The curve changes with volume. The hinge point is about 1 kHz so there is significant boost by the time you get to both 500 Hz and 2 kHz. You can’t do that with subwoofers.

Oh, I agree. My advice on acoustics and positioning as the more "analogue" approach, though I wasn’t clear on this in my previous post, was meant to go in tandem here with mentioned DSP tools for corrective measures.

I do find subs could make for a potential enhancement of the overall sonic experience in the OP’s setting at more moderate volumes when being included in before mentioned "corrective measures," to have an extra pair of legs with an additional octave down low.

@lonemountain --

Good post, Brad. 

Many think DSP automatically = digital room correction, but at its core it's simply a tool working in the digital domain with conversion(s) along the way, and DRC mayn't be part of that. I've calibrated my setup via a digital crossover (i.e.: DSP) fully actively sans DRC at a specific and desired SPL, call it reference volume level, which is a reflection of where I want it to sound the best. I hardly go any louder than that, and at lower levels it comes surprisingly alive. Still, that the presentation at ref. level is preferred and is where "everything fits" is not saying it sounds bad at low SPL's, but simply that a certain level is required for proper room fill, presence and physicality. Others setups I know very well are obviously "tuned" to lower SPL's via passive, lower eff. speakers, but at louder levels it's clear they become too hot sounding in the HF region while sometimes being overly warm-ish in the LF department. ATC speakers generally have struck me as being at their best at a certain SPL, say, from 80-85dB's, but that only tells me their balance is attained at these levels where they're typically used in monitoring. 

@ricco275 wrote:

my need is exactly to have presets to play music at a specific range of db, between 60 and 70db. The Anthem preamplifier seems to be a good solution with good feedbacks from users.

I understand that’s what you want, and my earlier reply to you also reflected that stance with reference to the DSP products suggested by poster @mijostyn.

My latest post however was referring to the approach I use myself, and what’s also more in line with what poster @lonemountain touched upon. I believe the most predominant takeaway with the Anthem or similar in your case is the aspect of digital room correction, rather than the usable outcome of different presets within specified ~10dB range, but that’s just me. It’ll be interesting to learn of your findings here, and what you prefer/find worth it.