High end speakers at low volume

@ricco275 ​@elliottbnewcombjr is exactly right. In order for any speaker to sound decent at low volume the bass and treble need to be boosted. Older preamps had loudness compensation filters for this very reason. You can use tone controls to do this but best is to have a digital preamp you can program with your own loudness compensation curve into a preset that you can select when you are listening at low levels. At high levels you want to roll the treble off. No speaker that sounds correct at normal listening levels is going to sound correct at very low levels. You Avalons are fine. Look at the Trinnov Amethyst, The Anthem STR and the DEQX Pre 4. These are all full function digital preamps that allow you to do these special things and a lot more. 

@ricco275 , simplicity is always best. The Anthem can do way more then everything else together at far lower distortion levels. Once you are in numbers you can do almost anything you want without the added distortion analog adjustments always make. The added capacity of just the Anthem unit would bring your system to heights you can not imagine. 

@musicaddict  Painfully correct. A system that sounds fine at low levels will shriek at you at high levels. With digital signal processing you can easily have it both ways.  

@ricco275  You would be surprised. Once you correct the frequency response for low level listening all the details will come out. 

I am not a fan of the Loki. If price is an issue the MiniDSP SHD is the way to go. The Anthem STR Preamp is even better , the Trinnov Amethyst better still and the best is the DEQX Pre 4. These are preamps so you you would need an amp to match. Given that you like to listen at low levels I think the Pass Labs XA 25.8 would be perfect. 

@ricco275 The Loci Max is analog and will add distortion. The units I mention are full function digital processors. The DEQX and Trinnov are lightening fast with 64 bit floating point processors. As preamps they are invisible. They are going to sound like your sources. A turntable will still sound like a turntable but much better because of room correction and loudness correction. All your digital sources plug into SPDIF or AES inputs. All three units have 4 SOTA DAC channels, two for your main speakers and two for subwoofers should desire to add them. Subwoofer crossovers are included. It is important to note that unlike analog processors once you are in high speed digital you can do almost anything to the signal without adding any distortion. The signal is converted back to analog only at the very end of the signal path. All functions can be handled by remote. They will also serve as streamers. All you need is one of these processors (I am getting the DEQX) an amplifier, speakers and your sources. All three have USB Audio inputs in case you want to get into computer audio. I run a Mac Mini with a 6 TB hard drive. 

@ricco275 , The Anthem STR is an excellent value. It is well made and offers most of the digital flexibility needed to adjust your system exactly the way you want it. When we only had analog equipment, no tone controls was the standard because analog tone control disrupt the image. This is in no way the case for digital EQ which can be used to improve the image. The STR is a full function preamp and ios very clean. It is not a tube preamp but if you want the sound of tubes get a tube phono stage or tube amplifier. The Preamp's job is to select sources, control volume and in the case of a digital preamp provide room control, bass management, DACs and EQ. The STR does this punching above it's price point. The only caveat is you have to have at least basic computer skills if you want to get into the more advanced capabilities of the STR. Most of the set up is simple.  

@ricco275 , let me have a look at the article and I will get back. Harshness is usually easily controlled by attenuating the area between 3 and 4 kHz just a coupld of dB.  

@ricco275  DEQX got stung by Covid. They were just getting ready to release the new Pre 4 and Pre 8 so they announced that the old units were discontinued (the Premate series) and then lost the supply of the very new processor they were putting in the new units. They had to redesign the Pre 4 and 8 around a new even more powerful processor and are getting ready to release the Pre 8 to a small group of us to test the Beta program. Once all the bugs are worked out they will be released to the public, I would guess about 6 months. The Pre 4, which is what you would be interested in and will be around $8000 American, the Pre 8 $10,000. They had not formally released prices yet so, these are estimates. These units are way more flexible than the other units. DEQX will set it up for you online but if you are adventurous you can connect you computer and program away. The Trinnov is idiot proof, set it and forget it and the Anthem is somewhere in between. The Anthem is the best value and I think the DEQX the highest performance overall. A lot of it is being able to make your system do exactly what you want in terms of dialing things in to your taste.

@phusis , I agree entirely, having a preamp with room control is not an excuse to avoid proper room acoustics. Room control has it's limitations. It can only boost a frequency so far before you either run out of power or hit 0 dBfs (digital clipping) Having said this, you are not going to create a loudness compensation curve via room treatment. The goal is to reverse the Fletcher-Munson curve at the volume you prefer to listen at. The curve changes with volume. The hinge point is about 1 kHz so there is significant boost by the time you get to both 500 Hz and 2 kHz. You can't do that with subwoofers. You might be able to do it with analog tone controls. In this regards a programable digital preamp is handily best. You can program curves for different volumes and load them into presets without any penalty. The only ADC you have to make is your phono stage. Everything else stays digital until the final output DACs of the preamp. Since the sub crossover and integration is handled by the preamp a 2.2 unit will have 4 DAC channels. I digitize my phono stage and do the RIAA correction digitally and am convinced it is an improvement. The difference is well within the realm of psychiatric influence so it is hard to be sure without strict rapid AB comparison and I cannot do that with one turntable and phono stage. For sure, it is not detrimental in any way.  

@ricco275 , I think you might have read the Stereophile STR integrated amplifier review. As far as I can tell Stereophile did not review the STR Preamplifier. There are many reviews of it though and most quite complementary. There are a few complaints but none of them are consistent among the reviews which usually means they don't exist. The STR is built to a price and it is not going to be as good as a $10,000 processor. The Trinnov is the other option at $11,000. It is a beautiful unit and has everything you need plus. I think it is a bit overpriced being French. I did not get one because I need more flexible bass management than it has. So, I have waited over a year for the DEQX and am still waiting but I do not think much longer.

@ricco275 , I saw The Absolute Sound Article but can't seem to find the Stereophile one. None of the four or five reviews I read mentioned any harshness.

Harshness is generally an amplitude problem which can always be programmed out with a preamp like this so I would think it was something Stereophile was doing.

In reading reviews when you see a problem that is echoed by all the reviews you know it is an issue. You are way better off with the Anthem than you are with the Premate plus. With the early DEQX products you had to do all the programming yourself and it was way to complicated for most people. With the Anthem the process is animated. You can get involved if you want to but you do not have to.

The only other unit is the $1300 MiniDSP SHD which is a good unit for the money but distinctly inferior to the STR. 

@ricco275  Wonderful. You are about to enter a whole new world of possibilities. Lots of fun. If you have any problems feel free to message me. 

@phusis , I agree entirely but baby steps. Let Rocco get used to his new processor first.. We might already be stretching his budget.

@phusis ​​@lonemountain 

I have been using digital room control (really speaker control) for 25 years and the really stunning effect is the laser focusing of the image. After the improvement in imaging the real benefit is in being able to tailor the amplitude response exactly to your taste. In the case of these processors the only thing that "sounds" is the analog section of the final DACs. In the case of a 2.2 system that would be 4 DAC channels. Once you are in numbers you can do almost anything you want without degradation assuming a 64bit  floating point operation system. Digital volume is the problem. You lose bits when you turn the volume down. If you start out with a lot of them you can lose a bunch of them without affecting sound quality. My old processor is slow enough that there is loss of detail at low volumes.

I will never live without digital signal processing. The affects on sound quality are such that any analog degradation is trivial, very trivial. In short you will greatly improve your image, you can make your system sound exactly the way you want and you can integrate subwoofers in a heartbeat with total freedom in placement. A really cool effect is, by placing the measurement microphone in various locations you can make the system image anywhere in the room. Obviously it is only at one location at a time but it is a really useful effect. My desk is at the left rear corner of the room. I have that location on a preset and use it when I am working. It is just like sitting in the listening position. 

The new DEQX series will be released shortly after beta testing of the software is completed. A number of us will be issued Pre 8s for testing at a reduced price. I was asked if I wanted to do this. Obviously yes, yes and yes. I have not heard back since. This was about 6 weeks ago. The Pre 8 has a complete 4 way digital crossover system built in along with full, computer managed digital signal processing capability. It looks like it is built like a battleship.