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High End DAC's compared


Since last contributing to Audiogon discussions I have owned a Bryston BDA-3, Luxman DA-06, and the Oppo 105d. Each, as you know, uses a different DAC chip: respectively AKM, Sabre Burr- Brown.
I now use exclusively the Bryston, sourced via USB by a Bryston BDP-3 streamer, or via HDMI by the Oppo disc player.
The characteristics of these DAC's has been described by others, and there may be general agreement that the Luxman is 'very smooth', the Oppo (sabre) harsh, the Bryston in-between.
My personal impressions:
1. The Luxman employed for chamber music...string quartets, piano trios and quartets, as well as for solo piano...
is 'muddy'....the lack of detail can be annoying. 
Try as I might to persuade myself that the 'more expensive sound'...ie, the Luxman's...should be better than the Oppo's, I had to throw in the towel and avoid the Luxman for strings and piano.
2. The Luxman employed for vocals (cantatas, oratorios, operas, folk music) is a delight. I've read that 'smoother' high frequency response decreases listener fatigue. Such applies to the Luxman, without noticeable decrease in clarity.
3. That virtue is such that even 'downrated' DVD/blu-rayDVD audio sourced to the Luxman via the Oppo's coaxial audio output was superior to the Oppo's decoding.
4. The Bryston BDA-3 is a good compromise...'
Chamber music and piano have the detail lacking with the Luxman.  Vocals may be very slightly harsh, but are thoroughly enjoyable.
I struggled to parse the foregoing impressions in respect of digital source...standard CD, SACD, hi res PCM, double speed SACD.  The sound quality seems to improve as one progresses from the beginning to the end of that list, but the DAC comparisons...at least my ear...are the same.
The bottom line for me is that the Oppo is an amazing value, the Luxman nirvana to the vocal lover but
not entirely acceptable to the chamber music/piano lover, the Bryston a good compromise at reasonable price, particularly if bought discounted as 'a demo', in partial respect of its HDMI (and DSD via HDMI and USB) capability.  
seventies
7 responses Add your response
seventies OP
67 posts
 
Steve,
Are we on different pages ?
Correct me if I am wrong.
1. Regarding jitter, I read that modern DAC's, of which the Bryston is a fine example, are highly tolerant of jitter, and that jitter reduction interposed between the transport and DAC is redundant.
Of course I listen to red-book CD's using the Oppo as transport and Bryston as DAC.
I have yet to compare accomplishing that by coaxial as opposed to HDMI connection between the units.
The issue is less relevant insofar as I like many others
'rip' CD's to a hard drive, and source these to the Bryston DAC via
a Bryston streamer and USB cable.
2. Regarding audiophiles using HDMI for music, I re-iterate that the Oppo and, I believe, other transports will output SACD and the audio channel of Blu-ray only via HDMI, for copy-wright reasons, and that
this is higher resolution audio than 'red-book' PMI.
Whereas I have very few SACD disks, I accord high priority to the sound of opera on blu-ray disks.
So again thanks for your input.
  
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
According to the ’Absolute Sound’ October, 2017 review of the
Bryston BDA-3, "with both CD’s and DVD’s the HDMI outputs of my Sony Blu-ray players sounded decisively more refined and neutral than those players’ SPDIF outputs....mirroring what I’ve heard from three generations of Oppo Blu-ray players."

All this says is that their transports (Sony Blu-Ray players) had high jitter. Not unexpected from a Sony Blu-Ray player or an Oppo player. Here are jitter plots from Oppo:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154408.0

S/PDIF input is the simplest input to design and I’m certain that it is 100% fine on the Bryston. You just need a low-jitter S/PDIF signal to feed it.

You are the only audiophile I have heard of that is using HDMI for music. It is generally the last choice.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio


seventies OP
67 posts
 
Steve,
According to the 'Absolute Sound' October, 2017 review of the
Bryston BDA-3, "with both CD's and DVD's the HDMI outputs of my Sony Blu-ray players sounded decisively more refined and neutral than those players' SPDIF outputs....mirroring what I've heard from three generations of Oppo Blu-ray players."
??
Thanks
audioengr
3,282 posts
 

Insofar as I use the Oppo extensively for blu-ray DVD’s, and insofar as the Oppo will output un-decoded blu-ray audio only via HDMI, could you comment on the effect jitter reduction might have on the sound.

I play Blu-ray movies using my Oppo and for the audio I use the optical output over a 1.5m toslink cable to a iFi SPDIF iPurifier to reduce jitter for movies. The iPurifier output is then connected using a high-quality coax cable to my SS processor. It does not reduce jitter as much as a Synchro-Mesh, but it does support Dolby Digital and DTS streams for movies, which the SM does not. It’s a no-brainer, just get the iPurifier for $149 on Amazon. A really good toslink cable is this one:

https://btpa.com/TOSLINK-XXX.html

This will really enhance your movie experience, and even watching the Olympics. You can use the iPurifier from your smart TV digital audio output to your SS processor also.  The difference in sound quality is improved clarity, intelligibility, better imaging, improved dynamics.

I recently watched for a 3rd time the movie "Gravity" with Sandra Bullock.  The movie never made sense to me with George Clooney screwing around with the jet suit for so long.  I was even saying this us unrealistic, NASA would never allow this.  Then I watched with the iPurifier in the audio cables and heard the quiet detail in the first minute of the movie - radio chatter with Houston.  Now it makes perfect sense.  This is the difference.


Would you recommend a particular jitter reduction device, and
let me know where one might obtain this and at what cost.


For 2-channel PCM digital audio, the Synchro-Mesh (SM) is available here for $599:

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/synchro-mesh

It has 30-day money-back, no questions.

The difference in sound quality is huge.  The detail, imaging, focus, soundstage, dynamics, bass and liveness will all be improved.

The Oppo digital coax output connects to the SM input, either the RCA or BNC. I would highly recommend using either the Standard BNC ($275) or Reference BNC cable ($499 option with RCA adapters) on the output. The best scenario is to use the Standard cable to the SM input and the Reference BNC cable from the SM output to your DAC.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

yyzsantabarbara
4,811 posts
 
I own Benchmark DAC3 but the best sounding DAC I have heard is the Resonessence  MIrrus. There are new variants of the MIrrus that I have not heard yet. Supposed to sound even better.
seventies OP
67 posts
 
Steve N
I am grateful for your response.
The Oppo 105d has what that manual calls a S/PDIF coaxial digital
audio output, and the Bryston has a S/PDIF coaxial RCA digital input.
I can compare the sound of a CD output to the Bryston by both methods, and of course decoded by the Oppo itself. 
Insofar as I use the Oppo extensively for blu-ray DVD's, and insofar as the Oppo will output un-decoded blu-ray audio only via HDMI, could you comment on the effect jitter reduction might have on the sound.
Would you recommend a particular jitter reduction device, and
let me know where one might obtain this and at what cost.
Again thanks, 'Seventies'  
audioengr
3,282 posts
 

In my mind, high-end is dCS, Emm labs, Empirical Audio, Light Harmonic DaVinci, Aqui HiFi, Resonessence, TotalDAC, Chord etc., but your Bryston is a solid affordable choice.  They are good people.

If you want good SQ from your Oppo as a transport, avoid HDMI. Use S/PDIF, AES/EBU or I2S. Get a good cable.

And reduce the jitter of that Oppo first:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154408.0

This will make CD playback a LOT better.

Here different coax cables are compared:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154425.0

Jitter is ALL that matters with an external digital interface.  More important than DSD.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

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