Here is an interesting artist that's new to me, and I wanted to share his music.
Jon Batiste is a musician Rok just introduced me to. From the first notes he played, I knew he was from Louisiana, with out knowing anything else about him.
*****
There never has, and there never will be a strict definition of "jazz". Wynton has attempted to say, this is jazz, but that is not jazz; it won't work.*****
Wynton speaks truth. Don't like it, too bad.
*****
While what was presented is a good example of "New Orleans Jazz", it does not stand up for repeated listens in my opinion; it was dated when I was born, and that was a long time ago.*****
Other 'dated' music / musicians: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Ellington, Mingus, Bolden, Armstrong, Miles, Elvis, Trane, Morgan, Sinatra, Adderley, Motown, etc......... you get the drift.
You seem to like 'improvised music', if it can be called music, but not Jazz. Jazz is not a throw-a-way music. It never gets old or dated.
And music played by a guy in clown clothing, playing tunes with third world names, does not make it good music, in fact, most often the opposite is true. Music is music and noise is noise.
As the good book says: No Blues, No Jazz. Know Blues, Know Jazz.
More outdated Jazz. I know it’s awful, but please try to listen to it anyway. These poor folks thought they were playing timeless music, little did they know it would be ’dated’ so soon.
Since this thread is about all things New Orleans, I waited for 17 hours for someone else to chime in and give you a thumbs up on Wynton, but it didn't happen; maybe you should put an add in a local newspaper to tell them about this thread.
No one can give a "strict definition" of jazz, and anyone who plays what they have determined is a strict definition of jazz will sound old fashioned, to say the least.
All those names you gave are like "steak and potatoes", it's good, but not everyday; although Mingus is the one exception I would make, that's because he's somebody different everyday.
Jelly Roll Morton, I'm sure you have heard of him, said, Jazz is 'a way of playing music'. i.e. The following were NOT Jazz tunes when written, but they are in these examples:
*****Rok, I noticed you didn't comment on the tour of St. Louis; did you miss it?*****
No I didn't. I remember driving thru St Louis back in 1975. I-70 I believe. I drove from Ft Carson, Colorado to Ft Lee Virginia. In my 1972 Datsun 240z. Those were the days.
St Louis has suffered the fate of all large cities. Too many people that don't have the education or skills to succeed in big cities. Too many boys without fathers. Too much dependence on welfare.
I visited Independence, Mo during college. It seemed to be a nice place. I am sure St Louis was a nicer place when you lived there.
They, cities, epitomize the break down of the Black family.
I put St Louis in the same class as New Orleans and Memphis. Once great cities on the Mississippi river, but now pass their prime. Greenville, Ms also.
Rok, I see things in a "cause effect" manner, or chain of events. Black people were relatively prosperous in St. Louis in the 60's, and most of the 70's. The decline began in the 80's, and has continued into the present.
"They, cities, epitomize the break down of the Black family."
No Rok, the cities epitomize the breakdown of the lower middle class economically; Black people in the cities are just in the spotlight. Lower middle class rural Whites are overdosing and finding other ways to do themselves in because they can't make a living. They are quietly vanishing.
The biggest and surest occupation in the cities is selling dope, because they need dope to cope, which also results in the cause of 90% of the murders.
It's all about what economic class you're in, not the color of your skin. Rich Black people certainly don't have those problems, but poor white people have the same problems as Blacks in the cities; it just gives them, and the media a feeling of superiority over Blacks in the city who are in the spotlight of social deterioration.
Fox TV hits the roof any time you mention "class"; that's because all of them are millionaires, and "class" will put the spotlight on how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.
Poverty is the root cause of criminality; there are Black people living in the richest neighborhoods in St. Louis, although a very small %, they don't commit crimes? Which brings me to the question, "Why is there almost 0% crime in rich communities, on the City limits of St. Louis?" If all those rich people were Black, there would still be almost 0% crime there.
I worked downtown St. Louis through the 70's and part of the 80's; rode a bus back and forth to work everyday through that neighborhood where he started off the tour. There were people walking and kids playing on those very sidewalks which are now empty. St. Louis was paradise for me; plenty of neighborhood "bistro's"; too close to home to get a DWI; plus that, you could even walk if you couldn't drive.
In one word, what took St. Louis down was "JOBS"; when the going got rough, the tough got going and left, leaving the majority of neighborhoods to those least able to fend for themselves, and crime was for some, the only viable way to make a living.
Thugs commit crime because it’s easier than working. Thugs are not trying to ’Earn a Living’. You think they rob people and businesses, and sell drugs because the baby needs milk? That’s almost laughable. Putting aside for a moment that they give less than a damn about all their illegitimate kids.
Half of Central America in at our southern border trying to get into the USA. Those that make it in, are working within a couple of days. hmmmmmmmmmm. You do the math.
When the southern economy changed with the advent of mechanical cotton pickers, people left and headed north to get work. When jobs were lost in the north, they didn’t follow the new work, they went on welfare. And there they sit to this day.
orpheus10"No Rok, the cities epitomize the breakdown of the lower middle class economically; Black people in the cities are just in the spotlight. Lower middle class rural Whites are overdosing and finding other ways to do themselves in because they can't make a living."
The whole USA is just about falling apart isn't it?
I'm not going to weigh in on which instrument is the most important in jazz. But I'm surprised Bill Evan's and Thelonious Monk haven't been mentioned with Miles Davis and John Coltrane.
So Orpheus 10, I usually read your posts, but I read a lot of posts and rarely comment. I do believe you explained both "there's no most important instrument" and poverty vs affluent very well. Doesn't mean there aren't any thugs. But thugs come in every race, nationality and shape. And yes the whole country is falling apart. But we don't seem to care.
"St Louis has suffered the fate of all large cities."
An incredibly gross over-simplification. Austin, Seattle, San Francisco, New York, Boston, Denver, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, San Diego - need I go on? Stick with music rok - your understanding of American sociology is wanting.
BTW, I've driven I-70 across Kansas. I felt like I was on a treadmill, with the same desolate landscape punctuated by a town with a grain silo on the north side about every 11 miles. I'm glad we have Kansas, and I'm glad people live there and farm. But I have no use for driving through it again, and I'm not sure I get your affinity for it.
"In one word, what took St. Louis down was "JOBS"; when the going got
rough, the tough got going and left, leaving the majority of
neighborhoods to those least able to fend for themselves, and crime was
for some, the only viable way to make a living."
Bingo - here's someone who gets it.
Here in Baltimore, we lost 100,000 manufacturing jobs between 1950 and 1960, and you don't need 3 guesses to figure out which race got laid off first. Whites stayed employed and used their money to move away (after housing discrimination was outlawed) - leaving the unemployed in the crappy city housing that was all they could afford.
Capitalism moves on to the next best thing wherever it's happening, sometimes leaving millions of the least skilled (and intentionally marginalized) behind. Whether it's steel or coal, ex-employees and their families are left in the vacuum with little means of moving with the investment capital.
Well, a major source of the old work was Auto, Steel, Coal, Major home appliances and the industries that supported them.
A lot of this work went to third world countries with slave labor wages, and some of it went down South. Corvettes in Kentucky, Ford Fusions in Mexico.
And for some inexplicable reason, we gave a large slice of the auto industry to that parasite called Canada.
We now have BMW plants in South Carolina, Mercedes in Alabama, Nissan in Mississippi, Toyota in Mississippi and Kentucky. GM in China. VW is also in this country. Not sure about Honda. The list goes on, but these are the major players.
That's the old work. The new work? Whatever replaced those jobs. I am retired and no longer in the job market, if I were I could be more precise.
So maybe the smart thing to do would have been to recognize that although great grand father worked at Ford, and grand dad worked at GM and father worked at Ford, all in Detroit and the Midwest just maybe, those jobs would not be there for you. Remember youth unemployment is the problem
You do not have to be a weather man to know which way the wind is blowing.
And to please the OP, there are white folks in KY and WV waiting on coal to come back. The prez said he would do it. Forget for a moment, that the entire world is going away from coal.
Inertia is a bitch!!! Required reading : "Hillbilly Elegy" by J.D. Vance
*****
Here in Baltimore, we lost 100,000 manufacturing jobs between 1950 and 1960, and you don't need 3 guesses to figure out which race got laid off first.*****
Give it a rest. In Texas we say, 'that dog won't hunt'. There are folks in inner city America who have never known, or known of, a family member that has ever had a job. Generations.
But your congressman went ballistic over the conditions at the southern border. I just assumed he had already solved all problems in Baltimore. So did the prez.
Before this country was even founded, there were "peasants"; people with nothing but their labor to trade for wages. Long after this country was founded, someone came up with the idea of "unions"; those unions enabled "common people" formerly known as "peasants" to earn much higher wages, to include medical and dental benefits. They achieved the highest standard of living ever in history for "peasants".
Along came "Trickle down economics" and union busting, plus "Right to work states"; no longer did plants have to pay those high "union wages"; they could just relocate in the South; you remember, that place where people worked for no wages at all once upon a time.
Yesterday "common people" AKA peasants had a standard of living high enough to live "The American Dream"; today, corporations earn the highest profits in history. I wonder how things got switched around?
Whatever happens, blame it on a poverty stricken, powerless, minority that's hardly surviving; that's the southern way.
So, rok, you said they didn't follow the "new work" once they were in the north. I asked you where that "new work" was. You said the jobs went overseas.
"Give it a rest. In Texas we say, 'that dog won't hunt'. There are
folks in inner city America who have never known, or known of, a family
member that has ever had a job. Generations."
The more you post, the more we see who you really are. Very disappointing.
Casandra Wilson from "Jackson Mississippi" is one of my favorites, and from what I heard, she still lives there.
Son House, if that ain't the blues I would like to know what is; as one girl I knew would say "Just throw me out in the alley and let me roll with the rest of the tin cans"; that's when she was enjoying the low-down Blues.
To me, "Death Letter Blues" will always be one of the most heart-wrenching recordings from the Delta. It ain't load-the-dishwasher music - it's riveting and spine-tingling.
I've had Abbey is Blue on my play-list for sometime. While Dianne Reeves exuberant afro-centric performance was best if you were there, Abbey's version is best in the seclusion of one's room. That song tells a story; while Dianne's is the most exciting, Abbey's tells the story the best; 6 on one hand, a half dozen in the other, it depends on what mood you're in.
Katrina was Gods will, the wall is questionable; what was not Gods will was the response after the disaster. I saw that none response for three days on National TV.
If I tell you water is coming over a wall behind me, and you take a week to throw me a rope, you want me to drown.
I saw those bodies floating that should have long ago been safely rescued. I know the resources that were available for disaster that were never called upon and so does everyone else who was a medic in the Air Force, Navy, or the Army.
Did God will for the White House not to pick up the phone? Could the fact that most of the people suffering were Black have anything to do with it?
I, Orpheus, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed.
"That I will obey the orders of the President of the United States."
Somebody saved a few lives with a helicopter and was reprimanded because he didn't have orders.
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