Help with TT ideas for my first TT

Wow what an experience, were there pops? Yes, did I care not really as it was just part of the experience. Could be a great recording, could be a good cart, could be both but there is some thing special going on for me. The segregation. Of Instruments is just fantastic, I can see the snare and symbol of the drummer, the piano is fantastic, as is the breath of the clarinet.

This is what you will find as you go up the analog food chain. Whether it is a better cartridge, table, arm, phono stage, wire, shelf or rack, as they get better the music floats more palpably real on its own in the room. One side effect of this is what you noticed, whatever noise there is, its not only physically lower in volume its psychologically way less noticeable because the music is so damn compelling and real.

Which is what I already said, only now you’re actually noticing it. So worth remembering. This effect is true of everything but a little greater with cartridges. That’s because a lot of the time a cartridge isn’t tracing or tracking so much as bouncing around. A lot of what we think is surface noise is actually this bouncing around called jitter. The Soundsmith, Peter Ledermann, has a great video where he discusses this in detail.

You are right, there’s huge differences between recordings. Not only that, but between pressings. When your system and ears get good enough you may notice there’s differences from one side to another. Pressing a vinyl LP is very much an inexact science. Often times a very old copy with a lot of surface noise will sound far better than a 200g "audiophile" reissue. There’s even a whole business https://better-records.com/ based entirely on the fact no two copies sound the same. They search out and find only the very best quality copies. They are incredibly expensive. They sound incredibly good. What you have noticed so far is the merest tip of the iceberg. Its part of the magic of vinyl. Listen close, you will see.

My system is well into the realm where the music floats, the room disappears, and so maybe that’s why I’m not real OCD about noise and cleaning. But if you are gonna do it, do it right. Get the Walker Enzyme cleaning system. Save a lot of money, skip their overpriced pure water and get the enzyme and cleaner refills. If you get something like a VPI vacuum all the better, just use it only to vacuum off the final rinse. Every record does need to be cleaned, but not often, probably only once.

You seem to be a good listener, so here’s a few things you will enjoy- Nobsound springs (see the recent thread on these amazing footers! https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/springs-under-turntable and fO.q tape (search Amazon).

kro77, With analog there will be noise. Period. There’s things you can do to reduce it, but don’t try and put legs on a snake.

All we really can do is what we really can do: play clean records, with a clean stylus, and hope for the best. A huge amount of noise is down to the pressing, and that is a crap shoot. I’ve paid good money for some that had pieces of paper embedded as if melted into the vinyl. I’ve got one so bad its like a cliche Hollywood stunt record- you know, the one they want to establish the character so they show him lowering the arm on some Mingus and then the foley effects guy dubs over some obnoxious amount of noise so you KNOW its a record. Only this is too bad even for that.

But the key to happiness with analog is learning to enjoy the music. Because with records there might always be some unwanted noise that comes along with the music, but with digital the music is all gone and everything you hear is noise. So take your pick.

That said, my rig is very, very good. One thing you (hopefully) learn, the better the rig the less the noise matters even when its there. This is hard to explain but easy to hear. Whether we are talking about a better cartridge, arm, table, or stand, the better they are the more the music floats palpably present in the room separate from the system and everything else. This is something analog is just naturally so much better at than digital its not even funny.

This is even more true as you move up the analog food chain. The better cartridges some how magically allow you to hear much greater detail and extension, yet at the same time make surface noise much less noticeable. Its actually not magic. What happens is their lower moving mass results in better control, with the stylus bouncing around much less, which is actually where a lot of the noise comes from.

But really, the best advice I can give is don’t sweat it. If you buy a new record and its obnoxiously bad, send it back. Other than that look at it like when you buy anything new. Whatever it is, its all the same: starts out perfectly shiny, winds up dinged up and dirty.

Nobody ever said they’re taking the bus because they can’t stand the way the car picks up paint chips. Same deal.

Clearaudio Concept - lean, analytical
Music Hall MMF 7.3 - Warmer, which is what you want in a budget component. "Seems like a great solution" Yes it does.
VPI Cliff Wood Another similar warmer more forgiving sound.
Pro-ject X1 or X2 - Have read some reports of motor noise
Rega Planar 2 or 3 - Maybe not as lean as Clearaudio, but close.

Setup and convenience of use are important but difficult setup is almost always exaggerated. More practical concern is cartridge output, since if its too low its hard to find a good phono stage for it in your price range. 

Really hard to go wrong with any of them. But if MMF seems like a great solution it probably is.