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Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman

Showing 6 responses by tomic601

tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,172 posts
 
My hope is that Duke continues to do well with it helping people enjoy music more :-)
I also have been involved in Audio since 1976 and prior to Duke’s use of swarm never heard usage of that term. As for the K-Troll, ignore him.
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,172 posts
 
Things did not end well for Jaco. I love his playing early on before madness set in. He was homeless - Grace, peace compassion upon them. 
For students of the art, you might look into dual cone / dual voicecoil push pull drivers with a honeycomb core.... I listen to just such a hyper linear animal. You can almost get there in am opposed driver narrow cabinet... almost
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,172 posts
 
what..no takers on bass beyond flat frequency response ?

seriously, download Vandertones ( its free ! ) get a analog RS SPL meter ( which you need to level matching anyway ) and at least see what your current room / speakers are doing.....
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,172 posts
 
And has anybody done a swarm with Longbow ? Hint Duke that might be a way to bring more into the fold...
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,172 posts
 
And for perhaps only the bass players atwixt us ( Duke and me and ? )’perhaps we can also agree there is more to world class bass than flat frequency response ?

and Duke, IF I haven’t said it enough, congrats dude !!!!!
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,172 posts
 
Let’s clear up a few things, Vandersteen has been offering a unique powered bass system w 11 bands of Analogue EQ for at least 20 years now. Of course as an advocate of real science Richard is familiar w Geddes research and his own that formed the basis of his unique design. In fact those paying attention will remember Richard passing his congratulations on to Duke for his work and award. You can of course use multiple subs in the Vandersteen ecosystem of high passed speakers with built in or external subs. Perhaps some will recall system 9 subs at Munich ( best of show sound ).
The Vandy way preserves the transfer function of your main amp, has more cut than boost, the 11 band EQ is NOT octave based but based on empirical sampling of typical listening room nodes, and super importantly designed to give fantastic bass at the listening position ( gee where the rest of the stereo image is - for a company fanatical about time and phase since 1977 imaging is a super high priority. Finally in my system photos you can see an RTA photo of bass fundamentals and harmonics.... image destruction starts  below 200 HZ, so you might want to watch that sub integration and placement carefully.
oh ya, of course I have heard a DBA :-)
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