Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world


I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman

Showing 5 responses by rixthetrick

clio09 - I am very interested in hearing more about your experience with this. Thank you.
@audiokinesis 
(Actually imo one sub may not always be better than no sub - many dipole owners have tried one sub and gone back to no sub.)
This thread and another also about sub woofers are really informative to myself. The advocates of multi sub array do make sense to me.

I already have a dual opposed firing single sub, I do like that the two drivers fire 180deg away from each other and cancel a lot of cabinet energies.
I have also an interest in slot loaded folded dipole design subs.

Have you heard or do you know of anyone who have combined a non ported sub with two or more dipole design subs? If I build one folded dipole, I am certainly doing two at the same time.




mahgister Yeah, but did you have a swarm or an array of sub woofers?
If you did not, he was very specific in saying that he did, for many years, before applying room treatment. And it was in other areas he found the more significant performance increase with correct room treatment. The sub array had benefits all on it's own, would be my guess?

mahgister, do you have, or did you have a swarm or array of multiple subs?
If not, this does not directly apply to your personal experience, it's evident that what I have with my one sub isn't the even close to the array experiences shared here.
@mijostyn -
I have full access to a cabinet making shop. I've been splitting planks on a band saw, running them through a thickness planer (before and after), joining the solid cherry wood (often with a biscuit joiner). Attempting to build four units from AcousticFields QRD 17 diffusers plans. I have only just managed to get the materials list for the diffusers, and I am going to have to let my friend program the CNC so I can get table time to cut the panels for assembly. I have some skills, always learning more.

I worked for a loudspeaker designer, my system page has photos of my current two pairs of speakers during glue up. I'm probably not going to do steel lined sub woofer enclosures though (so far the most rigid enclosure I have made is high density fiber board, 1.6 times denser than MDF, laminated to steel plate). My larger stand mounts are in the high 90lbs each. Stiffest enclosure shape might actually be a tube with baffles on the ends, not the most practical of shapes though without creating a stand of sorts.

I have a Tympnay LAT, it was controlled by a DSP, and I have to say I love the sound and without vibrations. Personal taste obviously, I was hoping a slot loaded W frame would do similar to the LAT.

The more I read, the more I want to both elevate and maybe try more subs as well.

Sorry I went off SWARM topic, but today whilst trudging through a quagmire I was considering the GIK bass traps and not affecting the SWARM sound.
I wondered if it was possible the bass traps simply didn't have the absorption (grunt) power to transform the energy from the subs, though enough to deal with the midbass??

From what I have been reading, and researching, the claims are by many that low frequency waves are very challenging and often traditional fiberglass traps simply don't have the power to deal with them as well as other frequencies.

Speculation of course.