Help me mod my tube amp


Hi all,

I'm interested in modifying my Prima Luna Dialogue 4 amp. The amp is about 15 years old and still sounds pretty good. But in the past I've had fun modding preamps and speakers and seeing what can be improved, so I'd like to try improving the SQ of this amp. I haven't modded an amp before, so I open to suggestions about capacitor upgrades or anything else. You can see a picture of the internals of the amp here. This amp resides in a secondary system, which is:

Mac mini --> Benchmark Dac3 --> Prima Luna Dialogue 4 amp --> Dali Phantom S-180 speakers + Rhythmik F12G-SE-PEQ subwoofer (via high level speaker input)

Power: dedicated line --> Maestro outlet --> Shunyata Hydra 8 power conditioner. Cables are Shunyata and DH Labs.

Current tube configuration in Prima Luna amp: GE Military stock 12AU7, Gold Lion 12X7, Tung Sol KT120

These days, I tend to like things on the slightly warm side of neutral. I appreciate increased resolution, but not at the expense of organic tonality and musicality. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Bryon

 

bryoncunningham

Hi , it looks like the conversation has split into 2 directions. One about modding your amp, and the other regarding tube rolling. I don’t have your amp, but here’s my thoughts. Better signal tubes will improve the SQ, but they’re expensive and you can go a couple of directions, clarity Vs softness. This is a generalization and usually comes down to Mullard Vs Telefunken. Again this is a generalized comment and it comes down to what you like and you have to experiment with tubes that are expensive. Now to power tubes, it’s midrange lushness Vs bass. So EL 34 Vs KT 120, and everything in between. Mentioned above are SED winged C tubes. They are hard to find and they are some of my favorites. The Winged C 6550’s are the BEST overall tube for the EL 34 midrange and KT 120 bass I’ve ever used. But that’s just my opinion with my gear in my living room and YMMV. Considering what you have, the above mentioned GL KT 77’s are a great tube if you don’t mind giving up a little low end. That being said the two 12AX’s are the first I’d try. Then the 12AU7’s after that. Then experiment with the power tubes. Now to your actual question, again I don’t have a Prima Luna. However I do have tube amps with SS rectification like you. I just had my mono blocks upgraded by the manufacturer. They replaced the resistors with Takman and upgraded the capacitors to higher quality. In addition to that they added MORE capacitance by strapping extra power capacitors onto the boards. Then with SS rectification they changed the diodes to Hexfreds. So I would find someone that has modded that exact amp and get direction on the values and brands of the items needed and go for it. However if you’re not experienced at desoldering and  soldering, without cooking parts on a tight circuit board then you could have it done. FWIT I grew up with Dynaco stuff and built a few items. I also ruined a couple items based on lack of skill. I hope my ramble provided some guidance considering most people on this site know more than I do. Happy Listening, Mike B. 

Thanks, nlitworld, for those additional suggestions. I will check out the binding posts and wire you mentioned.

 

Mike B-- Thanks for your observation about the different directions this thread has taken. Both kinds of input are valuable to me. I've used Mullards (can't remember which ones) for signal tubes in the past with this amp and liked them. I think when it came time to replace them, I cheaped out. But I've been taking more of an interest in this secondary system lately, as I spend a lot of time in that room. So I will rethink my former frugality. To my knowledge, I have never heard Winged C 6550's. Do you have the same positive opinion about other 6550's?

Thanks also, Mike B, for the suggestions regarding resistors and capacitors. I have been internet researching potential replacements. Although I have modified preamps and speakers myself in the past, I am going to hire someone to do these modifications.

Mullard Vs Telefunken is kinda like Chocolate Vs Vanilla. It’s personal preference within a particular system. I tend to put 6550’s and KT - 88’s in the same group. I compared the Winged C’s to NOS Tung Sol 3 hole 6550’s and the Svetlana’s were considerably better. I’ve used the Winged C’s in EL 34, 6L6 and 6550, they ALL absolutely rock. I really hate to see them go away. I have KT 66, KT 77, 6550, KT 88, KT 90, KT 120, and KT 150. NOS tubes are GEC KT 66, KT 88, and Tungsol 6550. The GEC’s are a little light In bottom end, but the mids and uppers are fabulous. The best way I can describe the Winged C 6550’s is that they have bottom like Tung Sol KT 120’s and mid/high better than new GL KT 88, but not quite GEC KT 88. Out of ALL my power tubes the Winged C’s are my favorite. They are pretty much unobtainable and the ones at the end were factory seconds. In the beginning they were consistent, graded and reliable. At todays prices Primo 6650’s are worth $200 each. This week I’m breaking in an octet of Psvane KT 88’s, but will probably need to buy an octet of better quality Tung Sol KT 120’s for my project. Unfortunately the cost delivered from Upscale is $1100. I’ve seen a few Winged C EL 34’s for sale and maybe 6L6, but the 6550’s are flipping rare. I’m down to a shoe box of loose, test 80% 6550’s. Disclaimer, I’ve never tried Sovtek power tubes. Happy Hunting , Mike B.

I would be careful on trying to find genuine-matched NOS tubes. number of NOS offered these days exceeds former production!