tHANKS FOR THE THOUGHT ON THE qUADS!
I was wondering when some votes for active speakers would land.
In fact i'M WONDERING ABOUT ACTIVE SPEAKERS AS A VIABLE ROUTE FOR A GREAT MAIN SYSTEM. |
Sandstone
"I've also experienced the dreaded "15 - album" display from a single album rip or download...."
Say what? I'm clueless on that item!
Good to hear about the DbPower amp bit though, I'd not get that fancy though. rip it to the pc HDD, then copy it to the NAS drive, and one static USB HDD, that just sits around and sleeps... I call it Ripped INA New-Wrinkle.
Presently, I'm not clear enough yet to make a good call on anything pricey. So I've time to investigate a few minor irritating concerns audiowise. The new fortifications have re-directed my current energies and resources, and absorbed my previous 'new amp' funding... for a time.
But the Power amp ought to be fun to investigate... if it's not aimed at IP Engineers only.
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Wow! Hmm.. Theater view huh? I never mess with that... cool... I'll try.
Saw the Les Paul bit a few times now.
I'm using a Lynx AES 16 PCI Expresss card and it's native ASIO setup on my XP SP 3 box to feed my Bel Canto DAC 3 with... ohhh, and via a Gotham captured cable 1.5M AES. No OEM Lynx break out cables. the Gotham connects right onto the A bank of pins.
According to Lynx use of an outboard clock is well, let's say it this way, 'not for me'. They said there was one clock in the neighborhood of a couple grand that could improve on their OEM clock.. but hey, $2G's? Sheeessshhh.
Perhaps, changing out that Gotham wire might add somthing to the mix... but in all, I'll be fine as is.
I've done the M Audio route already. Hiface too. Lynx is well ahead of them both... and should be too given it's price point... even preowned as is how I got mine.
HD Tracks
You might wanna slow down on those concord CD re-issues... and some older classic rock as well coming out of Concord Records. HD tracks it seems is fairly quickly covering those same Albums in High Res downloads. Sure, more money, but if it's not a redundant buy? mebbe it'd work for ya. HD Tracks just put out Ray Sings, Basie Swings.. in 24/88... and on hte Concord CD release, it sounds great!
I'm a big Ray fan. Of any CDs, Ray and a handful of others are the only ones I'd be redundant with... Depending on the cuts being rolled out. I'm nobody's groupie... so I am still picky. |
Sandstone
Sorry I’m so late with a follow up here… been really busy fortifying the hacienda…. And I’ve had yet a couple more attempts by ???? to get in here. Amazing. That’s all about to come to a screeching halt… I assure you. Can you say 930 SPX 8 round semi auto 12 ga.?
I just read that TAS article myself. Fella was using a Bryston DAC, right? Woulnd up liking the less expensive PCI card than the AES 16….
Too bad he didn’t try the PCI Express card.
I use an AES 16 E. PCI Express… bigger… uses less memory and CPU resources… and costs a bit more. From what I’ve read, the Express has a bit more liveliness to it than does the AES std card.
I’ve tried a few of those same reviewed cards in my past. Wrote about some right here too in reviews section.
I’ve tried a few of the converters. USB to SPDIF or USB to BNC… they’re ok.. but IMHO, if you want to lessen jitter…. Improve performance… and increase resolution and detail in order to gain greater presence and get closer to the recordings attributes I’d say decreasing the juncture thru which the signal travels is key.
Take the signal off the bus, not off the USB. USB buses share thruput and chatter from mouse, keyboard, maybe even the PC’s speakers? It’s a minor item but I just prefer not to use the USB interface… for now.
The interface then, is as important too. Following that, the cabling sets the stage or IMO allows the stage to be set best.
I tend to believe too, there exists some synergy between the PCI/USB card or USB converter and the DAC ‘du Jour’. Naturally, it always goes without saying around here or anywhere else, and the ears of the listener and their preffs determine if a thing gets a nod or a shake. I don’t doubt the reviewers setup favored the combo of that particular card and his Bryston DAC. Not at all. My ears, rig, and so forth favorver the lynx + Bel Canto DAC 3. Sooo?
I’m a front to back (SOURCE FIRST) guy way more so than a back to front (SPEAKERS FIRST) guy.
THE SIGNALS INAUGURAL exposure or introduction into the system IMO needs be as pure and unadulterated as is possible. That’s why we use lossless conversion and secure rips. And why we should be placing high priorities on the Media Player too!
My problem, is I can not afford the setups that use exclusively one interface dedicated and highly optimized like Wavelengths, or Weiss’…. Or for that matter, Imperical Audio’s tact on personal confuser audio…. And now as we jot down new posts, PS Audio is getting into the mix…. Deeper and agressively.
A while back at least one audiophile had said he felt the PSA Bridge was better than his DCS outfit that cost many times the PS Audio Bridge setup in the confines of his system.
I’ve got the SACD of Ray Charles’ “Genius Loves Company”, and as well the Ray sings & Basie Swings ripped to FLAC off the CD from Concord. I might just do the HD download of it too… so I can have a playlist with better consistency in the fidelity department…. Or at least less disparity.
But as I said it is curious that HDTracks is yielding 24/88 & 24/96 offerings of those concord remixes not long after Concord releases them on CD.
Now… when HDTracks posts up Little Feat’ “Waiting for Columbus” now… that one I’lll re-buy… probably till God comes or I’ go to meet Him.
According to what I saw the other day on the DVD Extractor web site… a Blu Ray version is upcoming. Now that will stay on my short list till it is released. Talk about direcrt High res! Ripping BR tracks will be outstandingly easy.
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Steve, I’m sorry I misspelled your companies name. Just a typo.. not poor intent. I’ll note that for the future.
Everyone tries what they can on what level they can justify or afford.
In the under a few hundred < $400 - $500 is all I’ve been able to check out, so that is where my claims extend. I’ll stand by what I said with those parameters now in place.
Decent converters? So IYO, where do decent conversion interfaces begin in price? $1K, $2K?
Using that word alone says the Lynx AES 16E is at least a ‘decent’ converter/interface/DAC.
At least.
Albeit, a secondary buy of just 5 or 700 on the heels of a previous likewise buy keeps some items from being auditioned by many.
What I’ve seen at your website does confuse me. Last time I looked there several items were being offered for various purposes. Converters, clocks, along with upgrades for just about each one. So even though some base conversion devices exist there… if optimally outfitted as your own site seems to suggest they could be, some approach a couple grand or more…. which… IMHO… makes them a far more thoughtful and precarious purchase, than merely an impulse buy, and further complicates the entire matter.
I believe you said yourself in a thread on another site that a particular device of yours outperformed the Lynx AES 16 PCI Express card…. Albeit, following my purchase of a Lynx. In spite of how that comment was delivered and/or how I received it, I did go look at your devices anyhow as I certainly am one who does nnot know everything about everything. That was when I felt one of your gizmos done properly, was a $2K or so investment. And that was the cost for a non full bandwidth device.
…and it’s cost then was around $800. Making it then several hundred dollars more than the Lynx AES 16E.
Then too are the cost for cables to connect up these added clocks, power supplies for those powered items.
The Lynx or Hiface EVO, either plug right in, or need just a USB cord.
Given that, well, we’re talking apples and oranges right?
I’m not taking you to task here Steve, but let’s not forget, it is merely a claim made by the maker/seller that promises rewards of higher performance, and not a general unbiased consensus.
All I know is what I hear.. as does anyone else, for that is the litmus test.. What we hear… no matter how it measures… and for many I will presume, cost is a consideration.
So too, is the ever lengthening list of devices one must or can or might want to try in their own rig, first hand. It’s expensive and time consuming.
And then there’s this… what if… just think what if… you get a gizmo… and following it’s insertion, you are just ecstatic about it’s performance…. All the “hey this is better” appeals… acclaims… assertions… are as fallow as fallen and withered grain. That person doesn’t care a bit then about any other notions of something else being better… well, definitely not right then.
Let’s not forget either…. Exactly what is better? What’s better truly mean?
Studio recording engineer better? Live performance in a club better? On stage outdoors better? Better meaning more natural? More resolution? More bass?
It can mean anything almost. It’s that subjective. When I’m dealing with subjectivity, price tells me where I can and might tred, and where I will not.
I’ll let my ears tell me what I do like and do not.
We all have our own little worlds we live in, no matter how grandiose, or meager. They are all miniscule and temporal. The aim I think is to enjoy the world you live in as best you can… and all my comments… assertions… advice… thoughts, and so forth point to exactly that, based upon my experience.
I’ve little doubt devices selling for a couple grand might out perform those of lesser cost. It even makes sense. But for right at $500 for the Lynx AES 16E…. I’m pretty happy…
The AES 16 allows for another clock to be added on as well… but guess what Lynx rep said to me about adding on aftermarket upscale clocks …….
He said, “Unless you are adding on (I forget the name) which costs several thousands of dollars, I’d not add one. Even then with this high dollar aftermarket clock, the gain is going to be quite marginal.” Indicating to me numbers like 10% or 15% improvements.
Perhaps Steve, you should have said something sooner… or others should have said something sooner on that topic. I asked. A lot. But no one chimed in and mentioned a similarly priced item which you make as a solution.
In fact the overwhelming input unsaid, but seen in the virtual systems and signatures of posters was the Lynx device… not an Empirical Audio unit.
Why? I don’t know. Price probably. Add on’s perhaps. Bandwidth? Beats me. Time will come maybe… and I’ll give Empirical Audio a shot. But for now, I’m good. there and have other more important and larger, fish to fry elsewhere in my audio world, and my own life in general.
What would interest me in this thread of mine, is a device which totally eliminates the need for a outboard DAC. Something that can improve performace by subtraction… get rid of DACs, preamps… not bust the bank and control/feed some nice active speakers.
Better still IMHO, would be such a unit for my main system which could feed and control vol on amp (s) and be capable of utilizing the whole of the bandwidth… or the like and not be made of too much can’taffordium.
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Hi Steve
... one last Q… and a thought or two
Why do you force a person to choose which word and sampling rates are to be addressed with your components?
Why not allow for all the content from Red Book to DVD Audio to be processed by your converters clock?
Why too, not make a DAC which addresses more than merely USB?
Other digital devices do exist. I’m not blaming you, but in looking for a DAC, lets say, I looked both for build, stability, versatility and voice. Removing other interfaces in the name of gaining performance is lessening flexibility and inherent value. The price too becomes more lofty. And that is indeed your call of course.
BTW...
‘my customers don't read this forum... “
Do they peruse any at all? I posted on a couple others many of the Questions I’ve posted here..
I would take issue with you on how much money it takes someones equipment to make outstanding involving listening sessions. And right there lays the conundrum or maybe the challenge.
Simple high prices alone are less and less orienting the level of SQ. In fact the trend over the past few years is to see excellent performing products for lower costs.
I suppose shiek will always be sheik to some. Albeit, the greater buying dollar resides in less affluent climes. This is a statement from the larger portion of the digital producing industry, and a swelling trend that continues today.
One side of the Lynx clock add-on debate said virtually no greater performance results would be obtained by such an implimentation. Actually, Lynx side said that. You agreed.
The flip side of that debate implies otherwise, saying, "due to the high level of clock tech currently on board, adding an aftermarket clock is money poorly spent." Perhaps even if it is an Empiracal audio clock, huh?
Then that is a good thing! No need to spend more duckets!
for my money,I observe the threshold of diminishing returns. Some. I venture past it now and then. Just as a good brain washed audiophile should keep trying to eek out or capture that added little bit extra. That elusive next wee step up.
When that added littel bit amounts to spending $6K... vs $3K. or $1500 vs 500 - 700... I'll pass. Almost each and every time. I pass because I must financially and as I should philosophically.
For that added 50% more all I get is a rental agreement towards the next, perhaps, version you or any other maker may decide to build, and/or are enabled to build.
spending double for 10% or even 20% mo betta? I pray I never fall prey to my ego, that I'd invest that sort of money into a market which at best returns only 50% on principal... or less. And travels as briskly as does the digital realm.
In the digital kingdom as one poster already underlined... things move fast... and with some luck, he was able to flip his Emperical Audio device prior to a design change took place, lest he lose out dramatically more.
That scenario in no small part was designed by your hand. Maybe you sent out emails to all of your previous clientele of this upcoming release .... I've no idea. I'd have thought you would. I'd have thought any such a move by any maker would have issued such a communicae. Private and better still, public announcements of upcoming releases seem to serve credibility too.
Regardless, the seeming fury with which these changes transpire are by design terms swift. making digital investments still more dodgy a practice.. This year is this... next year is that... So the outlay of $6K is not a singular investment.
Let's not try fooling ourselves or anyone else.
I've been hearing a few of these in truth, high buck outfits of late... Far, far more expensively outfitted than my own... in really nice well tweaked setups. Owned by some very nice people too.
Trust me folks.... living on and a bit beyond the point of diminishing returns, is a very very, nice place indeed to exist. it really is, and in some respects it's better.
The separation between those setups and my own, subjectively speaking is not night and day, however the investment (s) are.
The more I hear of top flight, well done, quite expensive oufits only serves to remined me just how much fun and great sound one can own for just a decent investment…. Overall, maybe in the $20K or better buying a mix of new and pre-owned equipment.. and often, less..
If I could afford to be quite lavish, I'm not so sure I would... well not much more.
Given what I'm hearing and seeing with my own two ears & eyes... or what's left of 'em.
It’ll take in home auditions. First hand trials. Trials of run in kit… not a few days of something that will emerge into something very unlike it’s current sound, later.
Wehn that happens, when that becomes a widespread practice, and all those in a position to make such purchases can inspect for themselves these new bleeding edge entrees du jour, the veil will then be lifted from the high end audio circuit, and it becomes then fact and first hand info, rather than reviews and hype that will fuel purchases. People will stand online to get them at that point.
I suspect not only will their be a huge infusion of integrity, but credibility will soar for the manufacturers. . Who's the boss then will be quite evident... and by how much as then even quantitative assessments will be agreed upon, by & large.
Well maybe no quantitative assessments will be emphatically agreed upon, as no audiophile worth his salt agrees with everyone on everthing. We aren’t allowed, it’s the law don’t you know?
…and that brings me to this… Steve… what is your input here for a great sounding desktop system that won’t break the bank… as the thread requests… ??? |
Thanks so far... to everyone.
actually a 'stand alone' system is the aim. No iPod dock, no dedicated DAC, no dedicated int amp or receiver.
So active speakers, and a USB or fire wire sound card that is a step or two up from what I have now... it's nearly ... well, it's old IMO.
If the sound card has SPDIF out, fine. if not, that's fine too.
Self contained stand alone, high value, not high cost.
Some sort of arrangement for $< $400 or so.
I'm blessed to have plenty of junk around to integrate any of my desktops into... preamps, receivers, DAC, converters, but prefer to go with a pc rig that needs no other assistance.
If, this proposal by todays' standards IS NOT CAPABLE of showing a noticeable measure of performance as opposed to what I have now... well, just say that.
I figured $400 - $500 ought be plenty to spend on a desktop sound system... if not, do tell.
Thoughts? |
Cerrot
ONce the signal is converted from 1394 or USB, the world is your oyster.
You might want to at some point, try either the Hiface, stick or EVO, or just go on up to the Lynx AES 16, card.
I had various M Audio cards, and a couple converters in here for a time, the Hiface was a slam dunk step above the MAudio stuff... BUT as importantly is the cable you attach to it, either the USB extension cable, or if plugged into the pc instead of a DAC, the RCA or BNC coax cable.
I went with the BNC and an Oyaide silver 1.3M BNC wire and was in hog heaven... until I took the plunge into a better interface for my gear.. the Lynx AES 16E... I'm about sure I can improve upon the Gotham cable that came along in that deal... but as is, all is much better still. In truth, best so far.
I use MC 15 & Fubar... I've about completely weened myself off iTunes now... and doing all in FLAC.
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Sandstone
thanks.. doing much better... time... time is the necessary component I need now... and some new toys unrelated to audio apparently... well, according to some around here.
So far until this past weekend, I used JR MC 15 to rip with along with EAC, and iTunes.
EAC is ok, but it's only on one machine. I've tried Fubar once last year. it said I needed some other component, and I wasn't into the hassle then of going snooping around, downloading it, and then installing and configuring it.
I believe i"m going to buy DBPower amp. or do the trial ver first anyhow... and see.
All apps I use enlist secure rips, and mostly, I can't discern the diffs when rips are into FLAC.
The parts which bug me are the directory lists of folders and configuring them in JRiver. Especially store gbought compliations. I don't dig one CD winding up in 12 - 30 parent folders and sub folders... or having to go in there and keep switching 'em back and forth.
I'll peek at the stereophile article of pc cards once it get published online. So far, my Lynx AES 16E is still pretty fresh for me. If anything, I'll try out some other cables on it first.
...and I have been considering another DAC or just upgrading my own.
thanks for the heads up info though.
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Sandstone , Thanks...
I went ahead today and installed the trial version of Dbpower. Cool! Loads of functionality! Too bad it's multi components. Seems to me anyone who wants in on any part of that ripping process will likely want in on burning, or conversion. ripping is about all I'm into actually.
No real need to convert. JR or Fubar play all I own now anyhow. And why convert?
Will Db not compile a CD if the tracks to be burned aren't all the same extension/kind? Now, for an app like this, that will suck a lot.
I'm a sticking with FLAC, and so far both CDs I ripped this A.M. into FLAC '0' rating... were both approved for accurip offset config, and sound better than the rips of them I did with JR MC 15 using the exact same drive (s). A Concord release of Ray Charles "Genius-A collection of hits", and a Tribute to June Carter CD called Anchored in Love w/various artists.
that JC Tribute CD gave me fits using JR MC 15! It placed the singer and track info together. It also creates a "Various Artists" folder, which is superior to a dozen artists folders from only one CD. Dbpower did the same Various Artists folder, yet separated all of the tags better... as it shows up in JRMC15 spot on now... and again... sounds noticeably improved upon... Gotta give that Delete key some action now, and dbpower much gratitude!
If you re-read the Stereophile article on that sound card/DAC run off, lemme know which ones were the top 3, please.
PS... did you download the DSP plug in too? Shheeeesh, is that loaded or what!?
I'm thinking I'm gonna dig this software a lot... but hate going back and re-ripping CDs though! Oil well.
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Thanks Steve
Over $3K w/o speakers for a very nice desktop pc audio system well, that suggestion demonstrates the divide between your perspective and my own with regard to terms like decent… very good, excellent, etc., and the costs for same.
Many of my comments were made on my last familiarization and talks with you on what was being offered thru your company. I did go look again, as usual briefly, yesterday?
It appears I’m confused by all the various products, their configurations, their update/upgrade paths, etc., and how to choose from amongst them which suits my preffs or system needs merely by reading their particular notes.
It is always cool and beneficial to the buyer a process or program of keeping up to date is offered. You are not alone in this capacity. Bel Canto does this… BAT has an update/upgrade policy… AR does similar things… and the list goes on I’m sure, though it is not all inclusive. To every maker, brand, or model.
Whether it’s due to manufacturing changes or technology changes. Your own product line echoes the fact no moss is growing on your offerings. Digital audio is stepping very rapidly ahead.
Keeping up is the costly affair. With some makers, it is still more costly to keep up than with others. There will always then too, be the subjective arguments about who sounds better and those debates continue to fuel this hobby.
I wasn’t aware you offer now, in home demos of your equipment. That’s very interesting. I’ll keep that in mind if/when I seek another change somewhere in the digital change.
Thanks for all the input on the desktop sound system. I appreciate it.
Any other pc sound system users out there owning a special configuration that yields a really nice sound?
Please… let me know.
Thanks. |
