Help! Antiskate with only a weight...no dial, and she's skating away!


I have a project rpm 10 carbon with 10cc evolution tonearm that has a weight on a string for antiskate. There are three notches on which to attach the string based upon the tracking force range of the cartridge. I currently have an ortofon cadenza bronze tracking at 2.5g and have the antiskate weight in the appropriate notch (according to the Pro-ject manual) from which it hangs. The table is level--checked and adjusted to ensure. The tracking force is at 2.514g (the range for the cadenza is 2.2-2.7 with 2.5 suggested by ortofon) checked with a digital scale (Riverstone Audio digital scale). The soundstage sounds great, vocals are centered, other instruments are placed in space according to the recording... Also the alignment was carefully set up using the WallyTractor and is spot on. 

But sometimes when I lower the stylus to the lead in groove, it will slide very quickly towards the spindle as though no antiskate were present (it doesn’t skip over the record, it falls into the first song groove--and yes I have confirmed that the stylus is present). But it’s a big jump vs just sliding into the groove.

So I found a blank side of an album and lowered the stylus onto the surface and it immediately slid all the way across the surface towards the spindle as though no antiskate were in play. I then disengaged the antiskate weight and experienced the same (expectedly so). But there seemed to be little or no difference between antiskate being engaged/disengaged.

So I engaged the weight again and lowered the stylus, but this time I placed a little extra force on the weight with my finger and was able to get the tonearm to stay in position--applicable antiskate force in play with this extra force. Of course, I have no way of measuring how much extra weight I applied.

The help I need:
Why is the recommended antiskate parameters set by pro-ject seemingly having no effect?
Is something else wrong?
The table and tonearm are obviously manufactured to handle this level of VTF, no?
The tonearm wires don’t appear to be impeding the arm movement.
What can I do to remedy this?
Do I need to do something to remedy this?
I wonder if I’m causing harm to the cantilever with what appears to be no antiskate, yet the music sounds great and the Analogue productions test LP record antiskate tracks "sound" equal to my ears. (But my ears aren’t young anymore, so I don’t think I can place full confidence in that audible test).

Any thoughts, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
cabalaska

Showing 8 responses by stringreen

cabalaska......My original Ortofon Winfield was internally wired incorrectly right out the new box...was quickly replaced.   Ortofon is a great company, but sometimes things happen.   If your problem persists, you might want someone to take a careful look at it.
I know that Im starting a war, but in MY system... with Ortofon Winfield, no a/s sounds better to me.  A/s closes in and shortens the aural picture. 
MillerCarbon may have something here.   What I hear is that with a/s, the spaces around the instruments are  more filled in.....it may be resonance with the a/s device.  (I have one of those VPI arms with 2nd pivot).  Once you hear the effect, its hard not to recognize it.  Looking at the stylus from directly in front of the cartridge, the stylus sits in the middle of the mounting....no deflection that one is likely to suspect w/o a/s. The system tracks anything that I have on LP without distortion on the left or right. I used MINT, and fozgometer to set up the system.
Lewn....what I'm writing in my post above is that when listening, I can clearly hear that when using  skating with my VPI there is shrinking of stage, a closing of the spaces between the instruments, etc.   This may be because of my specific tonearm...I don't have other tonearms to compare.   I encourage all to listen to your system and determine for yourself  the effects of using a/s or not.  What I hear is subtle at first, but when recognized, it is quite clear.  If you can't hear a difference it makes no difference.
mijostyn.....you seem to have a surfeit of opinion and not much awareness. I don’t need to be instructed on turntable setup, I’ve done it for over 40 years. I’ve personally owned an SME V. Grado Lab, ESL, Ortofon, Rega, Thorens, Helios, and probably other arms that don’t come readily to mind and have set up others. I write on these pages to relate information and thoughts that may or may not interest the audiophile community. I find things that may be out of the mainstream, but valuable never the less. With those that have a system that can discern the difference, I say that a/s does make a sonic difference...I just prefer no a/s and encourage others to experiment As for the value of the VPI arm....it actually is quite good: is easily adjustable in every parameter...and yes there is a sonic difference between the gimbaled version and the dual pivot. I prefer the dual pivot, so that is what I have. I know what misstracking sounds like, but with the hundreds of LP’s that I have, I don’t hear it. I thank those like MillerCarbon who introduced me to the Schumann Resonators....they are very helpful in my system...there are those like mijostyn that may scoff...
Dover... thanks....I have a short attention span..... anyway....I think the arm is acting as mine does. Another thought is that as you know, many records have a raised outer edge. If your arm is lowering too quickly, it will slide down this edge before the stylus can engage on to the enscribed music. Have you used a Fozgometer to zero in the arm? It will tell you if the stylus was mounted square in its attachment. I’ve seen so many cartridges even very expensive ones that were way off.....I think I also read of this problem on Audio Planet.....not saying yours is off....but a check might be prudent.