Hi Dreadhead, I'm sorry, you are correct, I did misquote what you said. :-)
Well, here's some good news!
I spoke this morning at great length with DJ Casser, the owner of Black Diamond Racing, and in fact, we spoke together on 3 occasions (He called me back twice!)
With Dial Calipers in hand, DJ, and I went back, and forth discussing the shortcoming of my BDR Clamp, in that it won't couple with my thicker 200gm LPs.
What DJ says he will do, is ship me out a "Test Puck" that has threaded inserts set at different depths on both sides. From here, I'll be able to determine what will work in my particular instance with my Mk-IV Platter, grt back to him, and let him know what depth works correctly. Then he can more, or less custom manufacture a new, thicker puck for myself at a reasonable cost to me. (Hopefully the new Puck will not be too thick, and the test puck he is sending will be a copy of the thicker pucks later manufactured by them.
I'll say this, it was a pleasure dealing with DJ, a great guy, and one who definitely cares about how his products perform, and certainly appears to hold his customer's satisfaction paramount above all else.
I agree Dreadhead, leaving a dustcover down, and even on will be a detriment versus no cover at all.
From what I know, your advice is 100% on the mark, and I do deeply appeciate the time you, and the rest of you fine folks have taken to respond to me.
I'm very glad I joinedned this forum, and I thank you all again!
When I have some more info, I'll post it here.
The Puck DJ Casser is sending me is already on its way, as he gave me the tracking #. Cool, huh?! Mark |
Hello Mark, I did not suggest leaving the dustcover up while listening, if anything, I would think that would make matters worse, internal vibrations and such. What I did suggest was removing the dustcover completely while listening. I'm no expert but I thought it was common knowledge that the closed dustcover causes unwanted vibration. I know that my turntable manufacture (Pro-Ject) recommends removing the cover while listening. I even removed the hinges. I would think that is why so many high end models, Basis, VPI, just to name a few, offer the dustcover as as option. Think about it, your enclosing all that super sensitive stuff under a plastic lid resting on a solid platform. That can't be good. Again, let me state that you guys know a lot more about this hobby then I do but I tried it both ways and it just sounds better with the dustcover removed while listening. Thanks for your recommendations on the static in potentiometers. |
Thank you Jameswei/All for your help/suggestions.
Speaking with Mike yesterday at VPI, he seemed to give me the impression that my case wasn't the first that he heard about, with BDR Clamps not buttoning up with the heavier LPs.
All day I tried calling BDR, no one will answer the phone, I left a message with them early this morning. Haven't heard nothing from them.
The BDR Clamp is not heavy enough to be of any benefit by just laying on top of the platter. yes, many good tables don't use any type of clamp, but resort to a mat (Linn for example)
Still, I like VPI's methods of Clamping, and coupling the LP to the Platter. As many who own VPI know, once the LP has been clamped, and then the clamp is removed, the LP still stays clamped to the record, with a vacuum-like effect. I think it is a very good design. Harry found a way to in effect vacuum clamp the LP, without resorting to a vacuum such as in the Sota design.
I'll continue to keep calling BDR, and see what they have to say. My two piece BDR clamp looks nice, but sure isn't as convenient as a one piece.
I am unsure about the BDR Clamp, if the Brass Threaded Insert is just a press fit, or if it is also glued into the puck. If it is just pressed in, there may be a way to slightly withdraw the insert from the Puck, thus making it able to couple to my spindle. Probably if the threads were recessed just 1/32" less, the clamp would work with my 200gm Mo-fi's.
As Dreadhead states, leave the dustcover open when playing with the VPI Clamp, and I generally do, as it makes for one less thing to do when the LP nears its end, and the cue lever must lift the tonearm off the LP before it reaches the very end of the runout grooves. On occasion I may close the cover, mostly when playing my system at low volume levels. Mark
|
OK, so here's my run down from tallest to shortest:
1 11/16 (= 1 22/32) inches -- all stainless HRX clamp, early version.
1 19/32 inches -- stainless knob on delrin disk, able to rotate independently of each other.
1 17/32 inches -- stainless knob on delrin disk, bonded together, hole not threaded, came with very early HRX.
1 13/32 inches -- black delrin knob on delrin disk, able to rotate independently of each other, came with HW 19 Mark III. Mark, you mentioned that you had one of these, and it measured about 1 5/8 inches (= 1 20/32 inches). It would seem that yours is clearly taller than mine.
I measured these by inverting them on a flat surface, ensuring that the discs were parallel to the surface (versus wobbling like a toy top) by using perpendicular bubble levels on the discs' flat bottoms now facing up, then measuring the distance from the surface to the upper edge of the discs using a metal tape measure. I checked to make sure the tape measure didn't "add" a little bit at its end before starting to count the distance at "0."
Assuming you don't go with Dreadhead's suggestion, both getting a taller dustcover or finding a way to use the BDR clamp are possible ways to go. Best would be getting a BDR with the threaded insert where you want it. A question: if you don't screw the BDR down but just place it on the spindle, is it heavy enough to press the record down on the platter to your satisfaction? or is the screw down essential? Good luck. |
I would suggest removing the dustcover when playing an album and removing the clamp when not. Problem solved. I think my turntable sounds better with the dustcover removed anyway. |
Hi again, Had my BDR Clamp buttoned up with my 180-200gm Mofi LP's, I'd be set, as it's a much lower profile Clamp, but it won't.
I caled both VPI this morning, and tried getting ahold of BDR, but had no luck with BDR. I had to leave a message.
Mike at VPI stated that the new Stainless Steel Clamp for the 19's is identical in height to my All Delrin Clamp, and that is 1-5/8", so I won't gain a height advantage going with this newer Clamp.
The Brass threaded Insert on the BDR Clamp I have has been recessed inside the Puck too far. Whether this is just a press fit into the Puck, or is also glued in, I have no idea? Perhaps BDR will take back the puck, and either reset the insert, install a new insert, or possibly replace the Puck? The problem only occurs with thick LPs. Standard LPs will clamp up fine with my BDR Clamp.
I'll try to keep all posted. Thanks again all for your advice, and help |
You might try going clampless. I just demonstrated the merits of this to a HW-19 Mk 14 user yesterday, first with a DIY spotmat and then with my Boston Audio Mat 1. In both cases the sound opened up a lot without the clamp and there were no detectable downsides. YMMV and all that, but I gave up on clamps on my TNT Mk 2 quite a few years ago. Good luck, Dave |
Hi, I must've been 1/2 asleep this morning when a measured with the dial indicator! lol
Re-measuring again, with a conventional Tape Measure, I come up with almost precisely 1-5/8"
So then, I'm gathering that the newer Delrin-Stainless one piece that I see advertised at MusicDirect is actually taller then than mine?
I tried calling VPI this morning, and they were closed?
I'll try again tomorrow, and perhaps if I can get someone to answer the phone, they can shed a bit more light on this for me, what Clamps are currently available, and what their measurements are. Thanks, Mark |
I just measured my all black delrin two piece "One Piece" clamp, and the height is 1 13/32 inches. I stood it side-by-side with the stainless + delrin clamp and indeed the all black delrin was shorter, as the measurements would suggest.
This implies that my all black delrin clamp is different from yours. (Have you double checked your measurement with another measuring device? Sorry, I couldn't help asking.) The good news is that if your 1.766 inch tall clamp is just slightly too tall, there should be a good selection of VPI clamps that could fit OK. You could even get a short all black delrin like mine, and it might work out.
My all black delrin came with my VPI HW 19 Mark III, which I bought new in 1997. I vaguely recall that there was a choice of VPI dustcovers, a short and a tall, and I got the short one because the Mark III platter wasn't as thick as the Mark IV platter. I don't know if you are using a VPI dustcover, but perhaps the better solution would be to get a taller dustcover. (Obviously, you might prefer to avoid this expense.) If no one has the right VPI dustcover for this discontinued turntable line, Gingko Audio offers a selection of dustcovers and will do custom work. I've had good experiences with them, but they aren't real cheap either. |
In my attempts to lower the entire platter/plinth to gather more clearance with the 1 Piece Delrin Clamp, I have adjusted the bearing well plug as low as it can safely go, without causing rubbing between the Bearing Flangem abd Bearing Well Flange.
Then I discovered 1 spindle washer placed on top of each of my 4 sorbothane suspension Pucks. I removed these, and yes, I gained a little clearance, but then that created another problem. The Motor Pulley cover when buttoned up on to of the standoffs now touched the Motor Pulley, so I had to find some slightly thicker rubber washers to place in between the standoffs, and motor pulley cover. Too thick, and the little top nuts threads won't catch.
This is why I say the 19 series was quirky, and appeared to lack a little better design thought by the VPI team. Seems your always fighting to gain a 1/16" here, and a 1/16" there. Mark |
High Jameswei,
Thank you very much for your response.
The measurement I get with my VPI black all Delrin 1 piece deluxe Clamp (Actually two pieces conjoined) is 1.766" tall with my dial indicator.
I gather then, that the newer Deluxe 1 piece Clamp with the Delrin Base, and Stainless Steel Top Knob is then slightly shorter in height then than the one I have?
Can you please perhaps confirm this for me, since you state you have both Clamps?
The reason I'm asking, is that I have recently upgraded my HW-19Jr with a Mk-IV Platter, and the supplied all Delrin Clamp that came with it is dangerously close to the inside of my stock height dustcover. I had to resort to slightly raising my Dustcover in the rear to prevent damage for the time being.
And my BDR two piece CF clamp (Which has a much shorter profile than the VPI Black Delrin Clamp) will not button up with some of my 200 Gram LPs with this particular Platter, so this will hopefully be getting sold shortly. I figure why keep the BDR Clamp if it won't play with the finest LPs of my collection?
I realize I do have one other option around this, and that would be buying the taller 4" HW-19 Dustcover, but if the newer Clamp is shorter in height, I'd like to go this route instead.
I have personally found that these are some of the little "quirks" that plagued the HW-19 series. Thanks again! Mark |
I just measured mine, and it is 1 19/32 inches tall, to the nearest 1/32 inch. (It might have been just a hair taller, but my measuring tape only goes down to 32nds.) Given that it is clearly an assembly of at least two pieces, I would conjecture that its design height might have been 1 5/8 inches with some variation in production samples allowed.
By the way, I believe this is indeed the item you asked about. I also own the earlier VPI spindle clamp made up of two pieces of black delrin plastic, as well as the early version of the VPI HRX all metal clamp. I also have the HRX version of this clamp, where the stainless top and delrin base are bonded together. This last looks very similar to the piece you asked about, but I measured its height to be 1 17/32 inches. |
Hi again,
To elaborate a bit more, I am speaking of the current Deluxe VPI Spindle Clamp which has the Delrin Base-Bottom, and the Stainless Steel Knob on top. Thank you, Mark |
