Hear my Cartridges....🎶


Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro

Showing 21 responses by noromance

Raul. We know all this. We accept the experiment as it is. Let’s call it a fun and slightly illogical and maybe flawed hueristic methodology. We trust that Halcro has selected the best combination of arm/table to enable each cartridge to perform at its best. And if we come across a better combination, he invokes it and we move on from there. 
Still following with interest. I'm trying to find time to listen on my digital rig. Will try for tonight. @halcro I have not forgot the headshell issue 😉
Late to the party. The Barodin Symphony No.2 shootout. First off, your system sounds great especially with my upgraded subwoofer.  Second, the Sony really does excel. I listened to the LDR first and it sounded good but the subdued triangle near the opening set up its downfall to the Sony. Sure enough, the D was more detailed and made more sense of the music. 
Ry Cooder sounded better on the Raven. The music was more coherent. The Victor was brighter but it was a mess.
Dire Straits however was the opposite. Dull and plodding on the Raven, lively and musical on the Victor. 
Cheapish headphones on PC. One listen quick A-B.
AS has a fuller bass, with more room-filling power and drive. JMAS seems to have a cleaner midband, more transparent and less congested upper bass. Listen to the French horn? around 5 mins in to hear what I mean. The JMAS sounds more exciting, somewhat ragged, and a little less veiled too.
I agree....but how much of that we can attribute to the DD Victor over the Belt-Drive Raven, I don't know?
Possibly more than you'd think. That's why I'd love to hear the LDR on the JVC. I listened to a Raven for hours at AXPONA and the system had a warm beguiling sound but not what I would call clear or incisive. Was it the big tube amps or the table? I must look it up and see what gear was being used.
Speaking of different arms and decks and the difference they make, especially with your "Decca" LDR in mind, I just got my Super Gold back from John Wright with a Decapod fitted and new Paratrace stylus. I installed it in my 9" Jelco TK-850 and it didn't sound good. Lot of surface noise and missing inner detail. I adjusted VTA and VTF and improved it some but it hadn't a patch on the other Decca (Garrott Bros Gold with new LC stylis and Decapod) on the 12". A little irked, I tried it in the 12" version of the same arm on the same table. Ridiculous. Transformed. No surface noise. Tons of detail. Crystal clear. Musical as all hell. In fact, I can't stop playing album after album. Ridiculous! 
I did some quick listening to both with the Strauss on the LCa. The FRS3 sounded slightly cleaner and more detailed if not a little thinner and edgier. Is it bakelite or hard plastic? The CF had better bass and control but lacked sparkle.
Thanks for sharing that insider info. I had no idea JW would vary materials like that. Does it mean each cartridge has to be fine tuned for brightness by changing the "stylus holder" materials? Can you imagine the possibilities? Tungsten, silicon carbide, bamboo spines, diamond?
@bydlo Most likely. Although their effective mass is listed as the same on Jelco's site. I posted the issue as a separate post on Analog.
@bydlo Congrats on the LDR. It should sound magnificent in your 930/FR64. If it doesn't, send it back for adjustment. I don't believe you can buy direct from JW but perhaps you could specify a sonic signature from the distributor per @halcro posts above.
@bydlo I load my Super Gold at 51k with Vishay bulk foil resistors. I love the sparkle.
Apologies for being on the lower rungs of the London hierarchy with a SG (with Decapod and LDR paratrace stylus). I also have 2 other Decca cartridges. My application may not transfer to the LDR. Nevertheless, I run them all at 1.55-1.65 VTF and it opens them up so they really sing. If your rig and arm are good, you should have no tracking issues. I also find raising the back of the arm above parallel locks in focus. Try it. you might be surprised.
Maybe the change on VTF that noromance posted helps him but is not a very good advise to set the VTF lower than the manufacturer specs
JW, the builder of London cartridges in the UK specs a VTF of 1.8g +/- 0.2g. Therefore 1.6g is perfectly fine. Thank you.
How can we trust (or rate) all the various opinions espoused by HiFi journalists and Reviewers whose hearing abilities are unknown?
Many years ago at a show in London, where they were demoing an Aragon system, I crossed paths with one Ken Kessler. I asked him how could anyone like that sound as it was rolled off, plodding, and simply dull. His reply knocked me. "That's the way music is supposed to sound."
Yamamoto HS-4 Carbon Fibre headshell
@halcro Congrats on the new car. 
I have never liked carbon fiber. It sounds grey and lacking in detail. It's overdamped. I belive I have commented on this thread before on this subject. 
Quick listen on the phone so there's that. A sounds better to me. It's probably your Sony XL88D! But knowing your penchant for MM finds, it wouldn't surprise me if A was a vintage MM.
TT1 sounds better - more detail retrieval, deeper insight into the music. Better drive. A little coarse but clean.

TT2 duller, further back in the auditorium. maybe nore space between instruments but loss of detail makes this a drag.

TT3 sounds better right from the opening. More dynamics, defined bass, air..

TT4 meh.

Now, I really don't have a clue which one is which but I have heard the Raven at AXPONA with triodes and Acora speakers and it sounded very warm and fluid but not very dynamic. I've also heard Technics 1200GAE and it was pretty detailed.

With that I mind I'll GUESS:
DD
BD
DD
BD
All good. 
I'm still waiting to hear the LDR on the DD where I think it will open up.